er9x development

[kaos]

that is why you need a wheel encoder to do scrolling and still able to use your pots for fly control.
It 'was' annoying to me when 1st used er9x that pot scrolling thing. Ever since it has been turned off on mine.

[jhsa]

well, I did use it.. a lot..
only the change value pot was too sensitive.. and sometimes we would have to bring the pot to one end before or it wouldn't cover the complete range of the selection.. But for some programming was great..
Now I have the encoder so I don't need it anymore. there are some people that use it. So, what are we going to do?

[pmackenzie]

FWIW, I only use it for changing values, not for scrolling through the menus.

[IceWind]

Hopefully this will fit in this thread.
But one thing I've noticed is the that there is duplication of functions in the buttons.
For example long press the menu will open the models list/conf area and the same happens with a long press on the RIGHT button.
Any special reason to have two buttons doing the same function?

[Rob Thomson]

The long press from the home screen takes you back to the last page you where on.

[MikeB]

No, a long press of the MENU button takes back to the LAST menu you had selected, at power on, this is defaulted to the model select page. So they do different functions.

Mike.

[ShowMaster]

Had a strange er9x, no telemetry but BL mod FW issue? The display looked to be blank. If several buttons were pressed at the same time a brief message of "model 1 loading " would display ok and go away.
I found that the BL mod wire had been wrapped around one crystal lead several times coming from pin 17 to the BL board and FET. This was used as a wire strain relief I guess.
I removed this because it bothered me that it was all coupling itself. Now it's a hot glue strain relief.
I reflashed the FW and restored the model memories. Still a blank screen, but if I looked at it off angle I could see a faint menu display. I finally managed to select the contrast option as faint as it was and set it to a value of 29, good display.
The tx is back with it's owner now and seems to work fine.
My question is Mike, is there a default contrast value that reloading new FW should have set for a good display contrast?
This was a strange one and one learns by asking.
SM


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[jhsa]

I think it defaults to 25

[ShowMaster]

Not in this case?
I'll have to test it out on my tx just to figure this out first chance I get.
It makes sense since I've always had a good display after a FW upgrade.
Thanks
SM


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[MikeB]

Given you restored the model memories, you will have restored the contrast setting from the backup file. Did this backup file come from the same radio? If not, then you are restoring a contrast setting from a different radio.
You should be able to change the contrast setting in eepe.
There is a default contrast setting, It is used when formatting the EEPROM.

Mike.

[ShowMaster]

Yes I restored from damaged tx.
No I didn't reset levels before reloading. Yes I still have the file saved and will reload it into eepe and see what the default contrast was in his file.
I never thought about what gets saved but thanks for getting my thinking on track, of course the backed up file is a copy of his tx settings.
Pays to get ask questions.
Thanks for reprogramming me ha ha.
SM



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[jhsa]

Hi Mike, just had a look at the changelog for version 781 that you've just released and it says that you removed the DAC filters?
Sorry about my ignorance but what does that mean? This has to do with stick resolution, right?

Thanks,

João

[MikeB]

We had a disscussion in another thread. There were three ways of reading the stick analog values:
Single - read once and multiply by 2 to get a 11-bit value.
OverSample - read 4 times, adding up, then divide the 12-bite result by 2 to get a 11-bit value.
Filtered - Read once, but do complex averaging with previous values.

Filtered causes extra latency, it can take a few hundred milliseconds to follow large stick movements. I removed this to ensure good servo response.
The other two do not seem to give significantantly different results on the ANA screen, so I combined them into:
Read twice, and add the two 10-bit values together to get a 11-bit value.

This saves some code, and the menu option to select which you want. It seemed most people didn't know what the option was, and never changed it anyway.

Mike.

[jhsa]

ok, thanks Mike, Yeah I remember seeing the other thread but never understood very well because this was part of the latency discussion.. Just thought I'd ask because this can influence directly the way models are handled I guess..
Thanks again..

João

[MikeB]

In er9x we have odd items to do with scaling of (mainly) telemetry values. This is quite messy, and has just happened over time. Things like metric or imperial, A1/A2 as voltage or current (or temperature or vario).

I'm thinking of trying to add a small number of 'free' scaling functions, just don't know when I'll get time to do it though.
Idea:
You specify an input value, e.g. stick, pot, channel output, telemetry input, maybe even the output of another scaling function!
You specify an offset, multiplier and divisor, giving an integer output (these values may be negative).
You specify how many decimal places the result has, together with a units specifier (e.g. metres, feet, amps, volts etc.)
The result is available as an input to telemetry displays and voice output, maybe even an input to the mixer.

Example: Take the current sensor that sends 2.5V into A1 (or A2) for 0 Amps, and 0V in for 100 Amps. This maps onto a raw value received on A1 of 193(.9) for 0 Amps and 0 for 100 Amps.
So, offset -194, multiplier -100, divisor 194. So, suppose you have 20A being measured in the aircraft, the output voltage of the sensor will be 2.0V. The analog value will be 155.
Calculation: 155-194= -39, -39*-100 = 3900, 3900/194 = 20. You could use -1000 as the multiplier, then specify 1 decimal place although for this particular application you only have a resolution of about 0.5 Amps (100/194)

If enough of these are provided, then a lot of the existing, hard coded scaling, could be removed. We may, however, need to revamp the EEPROM structure, but this might be the change that justifies doing so. I would need to put code to carry out such a change automatically into eepe, so adding to the time required to implement it. I may try adding just one of these in to see how well it works. It would be good to have the offset, multiplier and divisor values in the range +/-127, then each only uses a single byte.

Mike.

[jhsa]

Mike I think it is an excellent powerfull idea.. I don't know how I didn't see this before

Offset alone and negative values would be already a great improvement..All the other features are a big bonus IMO..

Now, damage on stock board??

BIG YES to the eeprom structure change if necessary..

João

P.S. - I've been reading your post again and I got the feeling that maybe it would not be so user friendly anymore?? would we have to do all the calculations then??

[thomas9x]

I'm thinking of trying to add a small number of 'free' scaling functions, just don't know when I'll get time to do it though.

It is a fantastic idea, or so says the engineering part of my brain. Maybe it could be implemented as a compile time build option rather than a default feature?

{Fatherly advice mode on}
As much as I like the idea, I still wonder about its significance to the user base. I fear that many of the 9x's flexible features like this one are a bit perplexing to the non-engineers that have joined the DiY 9x revolution. Some users aren't geeks and they just want to select a simple menu entry to accomplish the goal so they can go fly. Just something to keep in mind when new features like this are implemented.
{Fatherly advice mode off}

- Thomas

[Kilrah]

I agree. Most already have trouble just setting the "Range" parameter for FrSky A1 and A2. So requiring them to figure out "155-194= -39, -39*-100 = 3900, 3900/194 = 20" is pretty much committing suicide.

All the "default" things that are included in FrSky telemetry should work correctly out of the box for everyone, as that's really something widely used. Then add a few scalers to care for special needs, so that it can still "do it all".

[kaos]

Absolutely agree with that. We want as many people to enjoy the wonderful program instead of being a Nerds' only program.

[JustinTime]

I'll chime in here too and say that what I want is backlight to work so that I can see the screen in my garage. I want to hear a voice warning when battery is low (as an example). I want to turn on my radio, select a model, without needing a manual, and go fly it (could be a boar or a car too). I want to be able to set up mixing, D/R and expo with ease without having to go read complex manual. I think it's a great idea that I can program different switches to do different functions, and I may someday even use it.

[Kilrah]

It already does all of that

[kaos]

except 'without reading a manual'.

[Kilrah]

Depends - I've had much less need for a manual with open9x than with Futaba and Graupner radios!

[jhsa]

That is because you are deeply involved in it since the beginning.. And you can code
But for us mortals, is not so easy..

João

[Kilrah]

No, I meant when I discovered it. I only got involved after finding it so good

[MikeB]

Perhaps I'll include some 'pre-defined' scalings as well as free ones, e.g. deg C to deg F, metres to feet.
Is it too complicated to get users to select one of these, as opposed to just a global 'METRIC' or 'IMPERIAL' option. You get to choose which items are converted.

I should have a new revision of er9x out this weekend, changes:
Added some code towards a vario.
Added some code to support FrSkys new vario device (not yet commercially available).
Allow more blades (1-50) for the RPM scaling.
Increase the voice queue size from 10 to 16.
Add 'minus' to voice output.
Allow GVARS as voice inputs.
Add the !CV1 option for curves (from O9X).
Various flash savings (some from O9X).
Calibration procedure does not need the centre position for pots.
Allow selection of the first channel in the PPM output.

The last item lets you use low numbered channels as 'virtual' channels, then output the real channels. This means the 'virtual' channels mare calculated before the actual output channels, reducing latency.

Overall, the flash size is smaller than the last release!

Mike.

[HC1969]

Perhaps I'll include some 'pre-defined' scalings as well as free ones, e.g. deg C to deg F, metres to feet.
Is it too complicated to get users to select one of these, as opposed to just a global 'METRIC' or 'IMPERIAL' option. You get to choose which items are converted.

I should have a new revision of er9x out this weekend, changes:
Added some code towards a vario.
Added some code to support FrSkys new vario device (not yet commercially available).
Allow more blades (1-50) for the RPM scaling.
Increase the voice queue size from 10 to 16.
Add 'minus' to voice output.
Allow GVARS as voice inputs.
Add the !CV1 option for curves (from O9X).
Various flash savings (some from O9X).
Calibration procedure does not need the centre position for pots.
Allow selection of the first channel in the PPM output.

The last item lets you use low numbered channels as 'virtual' channels, then output the real channels. This means the 'virtual' channels mare calculated before the actual output channels, reducing latency.

Overall, the flash size is smaller than the last release!

Mike.

We are very excited!
Thanks!!!!!!!!!

[jhsa]

Mike, are you also implementing offset on the telemetry data?

Thanks

João

P.S.- Question.. Some people used 2 pots to connect a joystick on the back of the radio.
If the pots no longer need the center position to calibrate, How will the joystick calibrate the centre?

[Flaps 30]

Perhaps I'll include some 'pre-defined' scalings as well as free ones, e.g. deg C to deg F, metres to feet.
Is it too complicated to get users to select one of these, as opposed to just a global 'METRIC' or 'IMPERIAL' option. You get to choose which items are converted..

Don't forget to bear in mind the voice aspects when reading out values. They also have to reflect what is being displayed.

If the pots no longer need the center position to calibrate, How will the joystick calibrate the centre?

Umm... Think about that for a moment. The answer is in your question.

[jhsa]

No, flaps.. it isn't.. Don't forget that the resistive center of the pot is not necessarily the center of the mechanical part..
That is why the sticks still need to calibrate the center..