Pretty good crash

Need some advice? Trying out a new idea? Fancy a beer?
Join us for some general banter and good times.
User avatar
kaos
Posts: 3247
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:15 am
Country: United States

Pretty good crash

Post by kaos » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:27 am

I went to a flying club that I am joining today. After i am done, heard a loud voice shouting 'watch your head!' then a big bang. A large gas engine biplane crashed into the side door of a SUV in the parking lot behind the preparation shack (the vice president of the club's car :P). Fortunately no one was hurt.
the pilot is an expert flyer, earlier I was watching him flying the same plane knife edge, helicopter hovering and rolling .... you name it. It still can happen even with the best flyer. From what I heard the engine went out some how. They were waiting for the engine to cool down before they try to move it, cause there is still half a tank of fuel in it.

Here is the pic of the untouched crash scene:
Attachments
2013-06-15.jpg

User avatar
ShowMaster
Posts: 4314
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:44 am
Country: -
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by ShowMaster » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:40 am

Pilot error or radio?
If radio, what brand.
I see these all the time at my local field.
There's a target painted on a certain area of the parking lot, or so it seems, that I never park in.
In any case I hope everyone's ok.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk.

User avatar
Flaps 30
Posts: 1490
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:04 pm
Country: -
Location: Wokingham Berkshire

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by Flaps 30 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:00 am

Nice dent in the door. Looks as if a new door may be required. Insurance job I take it?

This type of thing seems to happen often. I have heard about three crashes involving cars parked near or on the airfield that have been claimed for on the BMFA insurance. IMO it won't be that long before the insurance company will be excluding such things or making a big jump in premiums.

So what caused this aircraft to end up in what should be dead airspace?

User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 17914
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by jhsa » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:00 pm

gravity? :mrgreen:
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

User avatar
gohsthb
Posts: 1412
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:32 pm
Country: -
Location: Naperville, IL

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by gohsthb » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:47 pm

I wouldn't call a pilot that was that far behind the flight line an expert. Should have dumped the plane rather than potentially fly it into someone. Good, but dumb pilot more likely.
-Gohst

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2


User avatar
ShowMaster
Posts: 4314
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:44 am
Country: -
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by ShowMaster » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:45 pm

Radio or pilot error?
Again, I'm sorry for the pilot and the car owner what ever happened.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk.

User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 17914
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by jhsa » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:01 pm

Guess if it was a radio problem the failsafe would have kicked in? Another possibility is the battery could have gone dead.
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

User avatar
Flaps 30
Posts: 1490
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:04 pm
Country: -
Location: Wokingham Berkshire

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by Flaps 30 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:21 pm

If it was radio failure that wasn't due to some plug falling out or a lack of pre flight checks. Then I would let the pilot off.

If it was pilot error.The I would agree with what gohsthb has said. Maybe it's time that this pilot was put back on a buddy box until he can show that he can fly safely and understand the dangers of flying what is in effect a dangerous weapon.

I will step down from my soap box for now and I look forward to the report from the accident investigation team.

User avatar
kaos
Posts: 3247
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:15 am
Country: United States

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by kaos » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:30 pm

My understanding the only thing involved is the engine shut off. It is a gas engine, the pilot was doing very low slow maneuver and obviously the engine went off, because the low altitude, he can't make anything out of it. I know it is not while level flying, that pilot when flying rarely do level flying when I was watching. he just keep practicing slow stunt movement, he flew it like helicopter. ;) it is like the spd never passed 5 mph beside when he is doing knife edge, even that it is not more than 10 -15 mph. ;) I don't know what maneuver he was doing, but no chance for him to bring it down or fly when the engine shut off. I think he might be doing a slow knife edge while turning back something like that. i did not see it happen, just heard it and saw the pic you saw. ;) Initially I thought someone got a car crash in the parking lot. :)

User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 17914
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by jhsa » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:38 pm

if he was flying that low that proves that he was flying very close to people and the car park. If that is the case then there is no excuse. Buddy box him then. ;)
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

User avatar
Wingsounds13
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:27 pm
Country: -
Location: Garland, Texas

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by Wingsounds13 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:08 pm

If he was flying low and slow then ground impact would not have been far from the point where the engine quit. Obviously he had some speed when the engine out occurred, perhaps in knife edge at the time. If so, then he should not have been ponted in toward the pits, unless the top was facing the pits and his recovery response included up elevator before getting it rolled to level. All seems to suggest poor or unwise management of the orientation of the aircraft relative to the flight line and pits, especially during low recoverable flight regime.

J.P.

User avatar
Rob Thomson
Site Admin
Posts: 4535
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:34 am
Country: United Kingdom
Location: Albury, Guildford
Contact:

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by Rob Thomson » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:10 pm

And this ... is why a fly slope soarers .

Much less worry about flight regime, detail, and adhearing to circuits.

:mrgreen::mrgreen:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Slope Soaring, FPV, and pretty much anything 'high tech'
...........if you think it should be in the wiki.. ask me for wiki access, then go add it!

User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 17914
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by jhsa » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:22 pm

last year here in Germany a glider (soaring) hit a bystander in the head killing him. It's not what you fly that makes it dangerous, is how you fly it and your disregard of the safety rules.
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

User avatar
kaos
Posts: 3247
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:15 am
Country: United States

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by kaos » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:25 pm

Wingsounds13 wrote:If he was flying low and slow then ground impact would not have been far from the point where the engine quit. Obviously he had some speed when the engine out occurred, perhaps in knife edge at the time. If so, then he should not have been ponted in toward the pits, unless the top was facing the pits and his recovery response included up elevator before getting it rolled to level. All seems to suggest poor or unwise management of the orientation of the aircraft relative to the flight line and pits, especially during low recoverable flight regime.

J.P.
I guess when people fly like that, they get over confident, they probably won't ever put that thing where it end up with, skill wise, but forgot this thing 'what if'. ;)
Last edited by kaos on Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Rob Thomson
Site Admin
Posts: 4535
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:34 am
Country: United Kingdom
Location: Albury, Guildford
Contact:

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by Rob Thomson » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:31 pm

jhsa wrote:last year here in Germany a glider (soaring) hit a bystander in the head killing him. It's not what you fly that makes it dangerous, is how you fly it and your disregard of the safety rules.
Well aware of that.

But as a general rule, power clubs have far more bureaucracy that remote slopes :)

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Slope Soaring, FPV, and pretty much anything 'high tech'
...........if you think it should be in the wiki.. ask me for wiki access, then go add it!

User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 17914
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by jhsa » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:42 pm

nearly the same rules apply to both sports..
there's a very important one that we tend to forget sometimes.. the plane in any situation should be flying behind you.. because that is normally where bystanders and cars are..
When I flew slope in Portugal many years ago, the gliders were allowed to go behind us to land when there was enough space for that but faraway from people and cars..
there is another club here in my area that only allow big expensive planes. One day i went there to watch them, and some pilot were flying the aircraft well behind the protection fence and over the road, people and cars. it's a road normally full of people riding bicycles and running.. There are some basic rules regarding model handling and flying that should not be forgotten..

João
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

User avatar
Flaps 30
Posts: 1490
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:04 pm
Country: -
Location: Wokingham Berkshire

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by Flaps 30 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:53 pm

Wingsounds13 wrote:All seems to suggest poor or unwise management of the orientation of the aircraft relative to the flight line and pits, especially during low recoverable flight regime.
Agreed. This pilot should be on the club trainer to learn how to fly and recover safely from engine outs and other situations around the airfield. Yes the 'what if' should always be thought about and ideally you should practice some of the 'what if' times if you can.

At a recent model show we had a 60% Extra there that was built and flown by Steve Carr. Sadly it lost power while doing some low level aerobatics. Guess what... He had the sense to level off and use what speed/height he had to turn it well away from the spectators to 'land' it away from people and property. http://www.wingsnwheels.net/index.php?o ... ar&catid=1

Ohhh! .... Is this guy going to be strung up or nailed to a cross? :twisted:

User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 17914
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by jhsa » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:41 pm

wow, pilot of the year. watched a few videos.. he very is good, but guess what..
HE IS A THUMB FLYER, :o :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Attachments
Steve Carr.JPG
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

User avatar
Flaps 30
Posts: 1490
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:04 pm
Country: -
Location: Wokingham Berkshire

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by Flaps 30 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:00 pm

jhsa wrote:HE IS A THUMB FLYER, :o :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
That can be cured.... Just think how good he would be if he wasn't afflicted with that particular problem?

User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 17914
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by jhsa » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:05 pm

ha ha ha :mrgreen:
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

User avatar
kaos
Posts: 3247
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:15 am
Country: United States

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by kaos » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:04 am

what's wrong with thumb flyer?

User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 17914
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by jhsa » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:04 am

Ohhh, you shouldn't have asked that ;) :mrgreen:
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

User avatar
ShowMaster
Posts: 4314
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:44 am
Country: -
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by ShowMaster » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:10 pm

The more fingers used with the thumb kicks in more brain cells to help out.
If that wasn't the case nature would have eliminated our other fingers along the way. Come to think of it, Homer Simpson has already lost one. Here's his brain scan. I'm going to continue pinch flying.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1371495086.028353.jpg

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk.

User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 17914
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by jhsa » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:14 pm

But all the other fingers are used... To hold the tx ;) So thumb flyers use all the fingers :D
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

User avatar
ShowMaster
Posts: 4314
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:44 am
Country: -
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by ShowMaster » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:25 pm

2 move, 8 don't.
I have friends like that.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk.

User avatar
gohsthb
Posts: 1412
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:32 pm
Country: -
Location: Naperville, IL

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by gohsthb » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:40 pm

For me 2 thumbs do the flying, 2 fingers do the switching, 6 other fingers keep the transmitter where I can reach it.
Here is another example of a thumb flyer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FWWY5kLF6c
And another of just his flying: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgECnfhJlTI

-Gohst

User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 17914
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by jhsa » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:05 pm

Amazing flying. Fantastic. Flaps30, what were you saying before about precision and thumbs flying?? :mrgreen:
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

User avatar
ShowMaster
Posts: 4314
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:44 am
Country: -
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by ShowMaster » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:11 pm

Ok, I know we're beating this to pieces and no one will be the winner but...
All these thumb moves for copter tick toc and 3D are indeed thumb moves. What about 8 point precision rolls and precision plane aerobatics that were the standard of a flyers ability in the past. Long before thumb bang bang stick maneuvers became the rage.
If you watch his thumbs they never seem to be in the center of the stick range but instead more Wii or Nintendo bang the stops stick moves.
I agree for this type of flying theirs no need for other fingers to be on the stick.

The new younger flyers only know video game stick movements so that's the new norm it seems. Have you taught any of them to fly lately, it's all stick or nothing.




Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk.

User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 17914
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by jhsa » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:29 pm

SM, allow me to disagree.. Did you see how fast the heli comes close to the ground without touching it? that is ultimate precision.. we can't compare this to roll a plane.. Every movement of his thumbs are clockwork. there is no place for error there.. No Nintendo in there, that is for sure. thousands of hours practising, that is.. ;)
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

User avatar
Flaps 30
Posts: 1490
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:04 pm
Country: -
Location: Wokingham Berkshire

Re: Pretty good crash

Post by Flaps 30 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:54 pm

gohsthb wrote:For me 2 thumbs do the flying, 2 fingers do the switching, 6 other fingers keep the transmitter where I can reach it.
That is where the use of a tray format transmitter complete with tray wins out. You can use all of your fingers to do what you like. :)
jhsa wrote:SM, allow me to disagree.. Did you see how fast the heli comes close to the ground without touching it? that is ultimate precision.
Hmm.... Last time I saw a helicopter flying close to the ground, it was obvious that the ground effect did a lot of the work to keep it from hitting the ground and not the pilot.

I wonder if Rob is a thumb flyer or these two guys who are a joy to watch flying their gliders ----> Testbericht Solius vs EGPE Teil 2

Post Reply

Return to “The Pickled Gnu (The Pub)”