Ailerons moving slow & with delay

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offers
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Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by offers »

Hello open-tx friends

In my local club we fly mainly F3A pattern ship (a 2x2 meters, 5kg, 10cell),
Until recently I was the only one that use the open-tx (Taranis) on such big planes (Futaba & JR is mostly used)
But now another guy jump on the opex-tx wagon and fly his expensive plane with Taranis X9E
He use it with success for 3 month, but last week he had a very strange (and dangerous) problem.

He took off, and found out that he have limited control on ailerons, he succeeded to land (causing some damage to his plane)
When he checked the controls, he found out that both of the ailerons are moving slow & with delay!!
All the other control are working fine.
After turning the transmitter off & on, the problem disappeared, and did not reproduced again.


My question is:
* Did someone had this issue or something similar?
* Can someone have a theory to what is the problem be?


Configuration:
Plane: Tornado
Transmitter: Taranis X9E
Receiver: X8R
Telemetry: Two FLVSS LiPo Voltage Sensor (for the 10 cells)
Version: OpenTx version 2.1.8
Separate battery for receiver
Each servo (including the ailerons), has its own channel (no y cables)

His planes look like this one:
Image

Carbo
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by Carbo »

offers wrote:His planes look like this one:
Maybe a attached eepe would be more useful?
offers
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by offers »

Hello dear openTx users

Today the problem happen again to my friend.
He upgrade to the latest 2.1.9, but not solved.
He calibrated the sticks, but not solved.
He noticed that the channel monitor display on the transmitter, show the movement with delay as wee, so it nothing to do with the receiver or servo.

I am attaching the eepe fie if this is any help.


tornado1-inputs.png
tornado1-mixes.png
oren1_tornado.eepe
(77.03 KiB) Downloaded 495 times
thanks,
offer
offers
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by offers »

He managed to record a video of the problem
You can see in the video that when the stick fully right, the channel value go fast to 30, and then slowly to 40 ( sometimes more slowly the now)

When the stick released, the value zeros very slowly, like it have a delay

Any idea what is the problem?

https://vimeo.com/188649936
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Kilrah
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by Kilrah »

Most likely bad connection between the gimbal and mainboard, check all wires and plugs.

offers
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by offers »

All the wires have been checked, nothing unusual.
More suggestions?
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bob195558
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by bob195558 »

I use radio firmware erSky9x on Taranis: (http://www.er9x.com/).
OpenTx firmware is very good, so I would agree with Kilrah it maybe a hardware problem.
One member in our RC group had trouble with his internal XJT transmitter which sounds very similar to your problem (this problem was intermitting).
Was able to verify the problem was with the internal XJT transmitter by using identical setup setting on my Taranis-X9D,
(both using OpenTx firmware).
This RC group member did not want to give my radio back to me because it worked perfectly for him,
(my Taranis radio with the same setup, worked without any failures for him).
I did a lot of testing between the two Taranis-x9d radio's which proved the problem to be with the internal XJT transmitter.
Sent this problem Taranis-x9d radio in for warranty repair, which the Taranis back PC board with it's internal XJT transmitter,
was replaced and when he received it back the new intermitting XJT transmitter problem went away.
Maybe, you could purchase an external XJT module and use it for testing between the modules .

If problem is not with the XJT internal transmitter module, the problem could be with the Gimbals.

Bob B.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).
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bob195558
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by bob195558 »

Also you may want to try different receivers.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).
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Kilrah
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by Kilrah »

Why would a different receiver change anything to it when the problem can be seen on the channel monitor?? :x

REALLY test the wiring well, problems with the connectors on the potentiometer boards and on the mainboard have been mentioned many times on the X9E, wiggling them usually shows a difference.
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dinamich
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by dinamich »

projectkk2glider@github
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bob195558
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by bob195558 »

Kilrah wrote:Why would a different receiver change anything to it when the problem can be seen on the channel monitor?? :x
Hi Kilrah,
I acknowledge you have a greater understanding to how everything works together.
I am only making a suggestion to what maybe a possible cause to what the problem maybe.
Thank you for you input, it is greatly appreciated :D.

Bob B.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).
offers
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Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by offers »

Some new information:
My friend opened again the transmitter to check the wiring, and while playing with the gimbal, a pice of foam fell out of the gimbal!
A problem with the wiring has not been found, but he can not reproduce the problem anymore.

Can you see a reasonable scenario that this peace of foam could cause the problem?
As far as I remember the stick connected directly to the potentiometer
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bob195558
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by bob195558 »

Dose the Taranis-x9e have optical Gimbals ?

Did you hot-glue the flimsy wire plug connections to the Gimbals ? :?:
Which dinamich posted a video showing a problem with the Gimbals wire plug connections.

Add Edit: The wires look to be very stiff to the Gimbals, has your Taranis-x9e been changed to silicon wires to its Gimbals ?

Bob B.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).
offers
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by offers »

We did not glue the plug since we was not aware to this problem until dinamich pointed us the the relevant thread

Yesterday it happens again, but now on the rudder, and it was really the plug, so he glue all of them now,
We do hope it was the same problem on the ailirons as well.
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by frankyrc »

Just to inform: I noticed the same problem at my X9E for a few weeks now. From time to time the "slow motion" is noticeable. The software is 2.2.1. Receivers are X8R or D8-II. With older software the problem was not seen. The "slow motion" only is noticable at one model and only at the aileron. The model is a sailplane with flaps and electric-engine. Other models in my X9E are not affected (for now).
I measured voltage and current, but it was ok. Voltage was high enough for the servos. I guess the problem is at X9E software.
offers
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by offers »

Hi
We also thought it was the problem
But it turned out to be the plug
Check it 3 time! Before you blame something else
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3djc
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by 3djc »

X9E gimballs are very well known for that, and mine did no exception, with exact same symptoms.

I have replaced all the gimball wire with turnigy silicon wire, removed the conector and direct soldered my gimbals, problem gone, and stayed gone (well even more now that I have put M9 Hall gimballs ;D)

3djc
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by skyboyken »

Hi frankyrc

I am having the same problem on my Q7S, also on aileron. My radio has Hall effect gimbals which I think means we’re seeing the same problem on different hardware.

I’m flying on Mode 1. Are you?

Until something else comes to light my thought is that this is most likely a firmware problem.

Cheers

Ken
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by Pierre »

Hi,

I also had the same problem from time to time, but didn’t identify it until today. When I turn on the radio and the plane (a glider) for the first time, the flaps and aileron where moving very slowly. After maybe one minute, everything was back working as usual. And I think I had the same problem on another glider, but didn’t identify what was the problem at this time, and did assume it was a problem with the servos. I was happy to land without damage, but when I test the radio a bit later after restarting the radio, everything was back to normal.
i’m using a QX7 S, so with hall gimball.
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3djc
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by 3djc »

As I said, the X9E gimbal issue are very very well known, and have absolutely nothing to do with firmware, there is more than ample evidence of that. Eventually, all X9E will have that at one time or another.

For the two x7 with hall stick having an issue, if it was firmware, we would likely have a lot of report of that (there is a huge number of those out there). Hall sticks are complex device, that I guess can fail (or in very rare occurence do strange things ?) Anyhow, this issue is different from x9e and will need to be investigated by frsky I guess

3djc
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by luismv63 »

I have the Taranis QX7 with exactly the same problem described above, in the same aileron channel, there is a delay and a slow response of the aileron, which appears when I leave the radio unused for a couple of minutes on, and disappears when I move the aileron's stick quickly from side to side for a while. I have checked the connectors two and three times and everything is fine. I have OpenTx 2.2.2. It is frustrating and dangerous since the problem has appeared to me while I am flying. Of course I would very much appreciate your help.
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by Kilrah »

luismv63 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:10 pm and disappears when I move the aileron's stick quickly from side to side for a while
Rather sounds like a faulty servo. Do you see the slow response on the channel monitor?
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by luismv63 »

It is not servo, since this behavior is verified on the radio display.
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Kilrah
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by Kilrah »

Then it's likely either the corresponding gimbal pot is defective or its connection the the board is flaky.
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by bob195558 »

Battery power/voltages up to what they should be ?
Bad wiring ? That is other servo wires to close to each other ?
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by luismv63 »

Good point, I will insulate the cables as much as possible, I will remove the connectors and I will solder them directly to the motherboard, and if possible I will shield the cables with aluminum or something to see if that helps. I tell you how it goes.
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by bob195558 »

I have never looked for Shielded Servo Wires or what we could be use for Shielded Servo Wires.
Having Shielded Servo Wires would be helpful when servo wires need to be close to each other.

Looks like we would have to make our own Shielded Servo Wires.
I think we could maybe just connect the shielding to the ground and still use the 3 wire connector.
I believe the signal wire is the only wire that needs to be shielded.

Wire: (https://www.amazon.com/SHIELDED-STRANDE ... way&sr=8-3)
Connectors: (https://www.amazon.com/WGCD-Universal-S ... way&sr=8-7)
Crimping Tool: (https://www.amazon.com/IWISS-Profession ... QPN65VGKVK)
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by tomekyo »

Hi all,
Since a couple of days I experience the same problem with my Taranis. It happens only on the aileron channel so far. Fortunately I was flying my fpv wing and not a quad when it happened for the first time. Firstly I thought I had some RC link lockup problem and landed as soon as I could, but soon I found out my ailerons inputs from the radio acted sluggish. At first, changing of the model seemed to help but it was a coincidence. I use hall effect gimbals on my radio, so no worn pot meters here. I took the radio apart and inspected the wiring - nothing looked bad or loose. I closed my radio and now it looks all right but I don't trust it anymore. I consider getting rid of it. Very often I fly my quads close to solid objects and also myself and don't want to cause any damage due to hardware failure.
And shielding of the wires will not solve any of these problems - because it is not what causes it. The problem comes from the radio itself. I have my Taranis fo five years I believe, updated gimbals for four years. The problems came just like this from nowhere. And it is also not a problem with the internal module, because I was using th EzUhf when it happened and saw it on the channels monitor even without the module at all and internal module switched off.

I am wondering if any of you having this issue, reliably pinpointed it and solved it?

Cheers,
Tomek
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Kilrah
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by Kilrah »

Software doesn't change its behavior over time. Can only be the gimbals or their wiring.
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bob195558
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by bob195558 »

Hi Tomek,
Sounds like a hardware problem or maybe check your software settings
that they have not somehow been changed.

I have had a problem with the internal module on the older Taranis-x9d that
it would randomly fail. The fix was, replacing the internal module.

You may want to purchase an external module
(which my testing showed it works better then the internal module)
so that you can compare between the to modules or better use all the time.

Could maybe, your gimbal is failing too.

An other factor is where are you flying ?
Are you having this problem when flying in a different place
from where you normally fly.
I know when at one place we all lose our right aileron control no mater what radio, module or model we are flying.
See here for what we think maybe the cause of what is happening: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCVd3QGQhKU) The Fresnel Zone.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).

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