Having a timed throttle cut

[ramsus42]

Hi everyone!

I'm using a Frsky Taranis with Opentx.

I'm searching for this for a while but I simply can't find a answer to my problem/challenge;)

For organizing a friendly competition I would like to do a timed throttle cut:
The pilot is connected to a buddy lead to a master transmitter (the referee).
The moment the referee on the master transmitter hits the switch, the pilot can give throttle and do his flight.

After 3 minutes the throttle in the Master transmitter cuts itselfs of automaticly so tat no one can argue with the referee.

Please let me know if that cna be done, I would be grateful.

[ramsus42]

Nobody?

[jhsa]

I could have a go at it, but I don't use opentx. I use Ersky9x.

It is not so difficult

Referee's radio

Timers menu:

Timer 1 (00:00)
Trigger A - ON
Trigger B - L5
Count UP
Reset switch - L4

Logical switches menu:

L4 v>val Tim1 3:00 (L4 is On when timer 1 is over 3 minutes)
L5 Latch L6 L4
L6 1-Shot TRN 0.3 This line avoids the referee cheating by holding the TRN Switch and extending the time.
What this does is turning the logical switch L6 ON for 0.3 seconds when you hit the TRN switch, and then it goes OFF even if you keep holding it..

This latch switch (L5 will turn ON when L6 switch is flicked, and OFF when L4 turns ON, that means, the timer passed 3 minutes.
Then L4 will also reset the timer back to zero

A single mix on CH6:

CH6 100% L5

CH6 will be +100% for 3 minutes from when the TRN switched is flicked, and then returns to -100%.
This is the value that is sent to the pilot's radio through PPM6

Pilot's radio:

Mixer:
Assuming your throttle channel is CH3.

CH3 100% Thr
R -100 HALF Switch (L1)

Logical switches:

L1 AND !L2 RUD (or whatever switch your radio has)

L2 v>val PPM6 75%


When the RUD switch is ON you allow the Referee's radio to control enable/disable your throttle. When OFF your throttle works normally for normal flying..

L2 detects the value of the PPM6 trainer Source (channel) and will turn ON when it is over 75%

Then L1 will turn ON when the RUD switch is ON and L2 is OFF (!L2)

This means when PPM6 value is at -100% (timer 1 stopped on the judge's radio) your throttle will be locked to -100%.
As soon as the Referee hits the trainer switch and the timer starts counting up, PPM6 goes to +100% and your throttle becomes active. After 3 minutes, timer go OFF PPM6 goes back to -100%, your throttle cuts, and the Referee's timer 1 reset back to zero, ready for a new run

Run this setup together with some voice files telling you when your time starts, and when it ends, and NO One will have a chance to cheat on the competitors. The radios do everything alone, The referee just needs to flick the switch once and put the radio down.

I didn't test this fully on my radios but I think it will work, I have tested the timer bit and it works.

Now someone translates this to openTX please

João

EDIT: will test this now using 2 of my radios, just out of curiosity.
Ahh and the radio flying the model is the Pilot's radio, Not the Referee's radio. That means you don't have to setup the model on his radio

[jhsa]

Here is the video of this working on Ersky9x. as I said, someone should translate it to openTX as I don't use it..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxULWegFwuM

João

[jhsa]

L4 v>val Tim1 3:00 (L4 is On when timer 1 is over 3 minutes)
L5 Latch L6 L4
L6 1-Shot TRN 0.3 This line avoids the referee cheating by holding the TRN Switch and extending the time.
What this does is turning the logical switch L6 ON for 0.3 seconds when you hit the TRN switch, and then it goes OFF even if you keep holding it..

I edited this part a bit. Please read the bold text..

João

[ramsus42]

Hi Joao,

THanks a lot for your great response, great video and the effort you take.
This is enormous helpful! There are two catches.
First catch is that the pilot transmitter is just a simple 4ch radio where you can't do anything accept subtrimming your model.
Second catch is that my Opentx firmware seems to be quite different then ERsky9x. Your manual doesn't work here if I compare the two.
I have tried to read it so it makes sense but ti'm not getting there at the moment for the conversion to opentx

Is there anyone qho can compare there opentx menu with the manual and see how I can do it different?

Thanks a lot again, i'm "fighting" to make it work!

[jhsa]

well, I said someone will have to translate it.. The referee radio being a 4 channel, non programmable transmitter also does not help and might even make it very difficult..
Unless, your radio do the timing and the referee's radio just trigger's it.. I think it can be done..
I will look into it a bit later..

João

[jhsa]

Ok, got it working in Ersky9x. The only thing you need is to turn a switch ON (over 60%) on the referee transmitter. In this example CH6 (PPM6)

Pilot's radio:
Logical Switches

L1 Latch L4 L2 RUD (Starts and resets the timer)
L2 v>val Tim1 03:00 L1 (Checks if the timer is over 3 minutes. If so L2 turns ON)
L3 v>val PPM6 60 ( Checks if the switch on the referee's radio is ON)
L4 1-Shot L3 0.3 (Makes the input from the referee radio a momentary press, so it can be used to trigger the latch on L1)
L5 AND RUD !L1(Checks the RUD switch to activate/deactivate the competition mode. This is used in the mixer to control the mix that disables/enables the throttle)

Timer:

Timer 1 oo:oo
Trigger A - ON
Trigger B - L1
Timer Count Up
Reset Switch !L1

Mixer, Throttle channel:

CH3 100%Thr
R -100% HALF Switch (L5)

The RUD switch activates the competition mode, and locks the throttle to minimum, until the radio receives the command from the referee's radio. When that happens, the timer starts counting, releasing the throttle control to the pilot. When the time is up, throttle is brought back to minimum, and the radio is ready for another run.. When the competition is over, just turn RUD off and go fly using the throttle normally..

Again, someone please translate this to openTX, as I'm not familiar with its logical switches anymore
Maybe there is an easier way of doing this.. But as the great Frank Sinatra used to say: "I did it my way"

João

[ramsus42]

I really apreciate your effort Joao. Thanks for that!

Is there anyone who can figur this out on opentx with help of Joao's posts?

Thanks in advance!

[ramsus42]

Please?

[jhsa]

I'm really sorry that I don't know how to do it in openTX I'm quite sure it is possible?

João

[ramsus42]

Thanks Joao,

I'm sure someone that knows Opentx very well can convert most of it easily when having a transmitter in front of them.
I'm almost thinking to flash the transmitter to this firmware to make it work like in your manual, but i'm still condident someone knows this.

[Kilrah]

What about trying to understand instead of just asking for ready-made work to copy?

From a quick glance it should be basically the same, just the names are a little different. Latch is Sticky, 1-Shot is Edge, v>val ia a>x, HALF is MAX...
On OpenTX a timer is reset with a Reset Timer special function.

[jhsa]

Ok, you got some translation done for you.. I didn't know those names apart from "MAX"
I think they could have made a bit more sense in my opinion.. I would never get there by just reading the logical switches names. I find for example "1-Shot" a bit more descriptive of what it does than "edge". The same applies to " Latch" and "Sticky"
But this is my opinion only.
Naming stuff correctly has never been easy. What is user friendly for some, might not be for others. That is why we have different firmware we can choose from

João

[Kilrah]

"Latch" for example doesn't behave exactly the same way as what's usually known as a latch would (at least in OpenTX implementation) so it was called differently to avoid confusion. Better send someone quickly read the doc because of a weird term than have him confused and stuck for ages by something that doesn't work the way he thinks it "obviously should" from the name.

[MikeB]

It is a SR Latch (Set-Reset), so Latch is reasonable name for it.

Mike.

[jhsa]

Better send someone quickly read the doc because of a weird term than have him confused and stuck for ages by something that doesn't work the way he thinks it "obviously should" from the name.

Sorry, I have to disagree with you Kilrah.

1) I was the only one that bothered (or knew how) to help him in the first place. He has been waiting for an answer for ages..

2) no one even bothered to tell him where the documentation is.. I don't know where to find it as well, as I use Ersky9x. I don't need to learn openTX, so I don't look for that information myself. There are plenty of openTX users on this forum, including developers that could have pointed him to the docs. I think no one did that yet, by the way.. You told him to read the documentation, but didn't provide any link??
I knew that if I said I didn't know if it was possible to do it in openTX someone would jump in immediately and help That obviously worked, and I do apologize for that.. It was a bit cheeky I know..
His request involve some programming that is a bit beyond beginner's level. It is not easy unless you know quite a bit about the firmware, specially the Logical Switches. I have been using open source firmware for over 6 years and still have problems sometimes

3) I found the problem interesting and took the challenge. That means I have also learnt something new. And found a little "Bug" in eepskye


João

[Kilrah]

I was talking of the reason for how Sticky and other things were named in general, absolutely nothing to do with the case at hand. He didn't come here to ask because of how Sticky is named.

[jhsa]

I think that by now someone could have already posted a link to the openTX manual..
I have no idea of where it is.

Anyway, no one gave a solution to his problem yet.. I tried my best but obviously it doesn't also help much as I use a different firmware.
As I said above we can't expect a beginner to be able to program something like this, so it would be nice if someone tried to do it.

João

[ReSt]

There are some manuals available for OpenTx 2.1
Don't know if that helps.
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=8724#p114177

Reinhard

[bob195558]

I do not use opentx also , and it is hard to find , but I did re-find this OpenTX University manual web page.
Here is OpenTX University : (http://open-txu.org/home/site-map/).

Is this what is needed to help those using opentx ?

Bob B.

[jhsa]

Ok, went ahead, downloaded and installed companion, just for this.. Translated the programming above into openTX.
I used P1 instead of TR6 (PPM6) to trigger the timer, so you can test it in companion.
To use it with the other radio, just use TR6 (or other number depending on the referee's radio channel used) instead of P1.
I just set the timer to 10 seconds for testing as well..
To test it, simulate the model, turn the RUD switch ON to start competition mode, and your throttle channel should now be locked to -100%.
Now turn P1 to the right until is over 60%, this simulates the referee input/command. Your throttle channel will now be released for 10 seconds and you can use it.. Then will be locked again until P1 is brought back down and moved again up over 60%.
The timer reset is done by a special function..

Took me a little while to understand how the edge switch works. Found it a bit confusing..
Please download the attached file.Just unzip it and load it in companion.. Sorry, but I'm not going to write it all again

João

EDIT: One thing I found really annoying was having to close the simulator every time I wanted to make a change. It really makes me go up the walls..

EDIT2: And please remove the prop when you try this on a real model..

[ramsus42]

Hi Joao and others,

Thanks a lot for all responses here on the forum. I'm sorry for ny late response, needed to travel for work but back home again.

I still don't have it working:( Joao, I see you think the referee's transmitter Is 4ch but it's the pilot's transmitter that is a simple 4ch.

The model has a simple 6ch receiver, which Is connected to a simple 4ch radio. In a perfect world, you can control the pilot's transmitter by a program which put all those limitations while flying..so can leave the models standard without taking receivers out.

In this case, I think my only option Is to bind the model to the referee's computer transmitter (which hold the Program) and the pilot Is (or buddy) is controlling it, like normal (student training)

Anyway, we tried some competition with putting the throttle cut on a switch and now we are thinking to change the Program a little bit.

What we would like Is that the throttle Is decreased with 5% or so, every 20 second for example. So that every 20 seconds the model will be harder to fly.

Is that simpeler you think?

[jhsa]

Ok, let's see if we understand how a trainer setup works. And it should be this way to be safe.

The teacher's transmitter control the model. The student transmitter is given the control by the teacher's transmitter, when turning a switch ON.

If as you say the pilot's radio is not a programmable one, and even if it was couldn't run one of the open source firmware, then the option is to bind the model to the programmable radio (referee's radio), which is not ideal, but it can be done..

I think your other request is possible in ErSky9x using the GVAR adjusters. Again, I'm not sure if it is possible, and if so, how to do it in OpenTX. Will try a bit later in Ersky9x first and then have a go at it in companion. But the GVARs in opentx are handled quite differently.

João

[jhsa]

Do you need it to be a percentage of the throttle stick, or a percentage of the full throttle (+100%)??

João

EDIT: Hmmm, I guess it is safer to make it a percentage of the throttle stick.. Like this the throttle can be cut at any time, and at the beginning the model doesn't have to be at full throttle when it is not needed

João

[bob195558]

Hi ramsus42,
It may be a help if you were to flash your Taranis radio firmware to ErSky9x on Taranis and use eepSkye on your PC (http://www.er9x.com/).

Bob B.

[jhsa]

This is what i have, but only for ErSky9x for now. There might be better ways of doing this, but this is what I got for now
I'm not sure I can do it the same way in OpenTX as I don't think OpenTX has an "NTimer" like ErSky9x does. At least I don't see anything similar in Companion.
I don't have time to post all the settings right now but I have made a little video. If you guys want to I might be able to do it tomorrow. You can pause the video and copy the settings anyway.

This is only for ErSky9x. Some brave soul can translate it to OpenTX. I do want to help but don't know how..
I really like challenges so I had to have a go at this one.

There is still a little problem I have to solve when pressing the TRN switch sometimes, but It won't be too hard to fix I think Here is the video. It is amazing what these Open Source firmware can do

João

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4uHSF8iJV8

[ramsus42]

Hi JOao (and others)

Thanks for all your input and i'm so sorry for my late response. Since it was very turbulent at work lately I didn't pay attention to this topic anymore due to other priorities. In the meantime we have organized a different type of competition which should be working for everyone who wants to enter. We have trailed it and it's working really well. Now I would like to automate this process, again on my taranis with Opentx.

The idea:

This involves a variometer in the model, i'm using a Frsky receiver + vario an mini lipo.

The Referee is carrying a "modified casing" taranis.
When you hit the switch you hear a sound. The timer starts. You need to climb to 200 meter as fast as possible. When the altitude is reached I would like to hear a beep. When you have hit the 200 meter you need to come down to 50meter. This is the moment when the timer stops and a new timer will start and will be stopped by the referee again when the model has landed.

The trick here is that the timer needs to stop at 50meter, but not in the climb, only in the decent. So first 200meter, then down to 50meter then stops. I can't get my head around on how to do that..

Even cooler would be when you hear a count down 180meters. 190 meters, 200meters *buzz so you know your getting to 200meter.

Is this possible? And if so, do you know how to set it? Thank you so much!

Remy

[jhsa]

I have something similar on my gliders.. I have an auto throttle that slowly stops the motor when the glider reaches 100 meters, and then slowly starts it again to the set value by the throttle stick when the model glided down and reached 20 meters. All is automated, I only touch the stick if I want to change the amount of throttle to climb.. But I use Ersky9x..

Only one advice, check the max altitude you can fly models where you live. 200 meters might not be allowed, specially if you are doing it near an airfield..

Let me see if I can adapt my glider's programming. Will try a bit later..

João

[jhsa]

One thing I don't understand, the timers are on the models's radios, or on the referee radio?

João