3 position flap switch

[shift1986]

Hi, i want to have a 3 position flap switch id0 position of the 3pos switch corresponding to the middle point of the channel (50%), and id1 and id2 corresponding to 75% and 100%, how can i do that? i have red through all the manuals i've found for the er9x firmware, but failed to understand anything

[jhsa]

Mixer:

CH7 100% Curve (c1)

Curve:

Curve1 0, 37, 75, 87, 100

maybe you will need to reverse it. but you have an idea..

João

[gohsthb]

Or you could do it this way,
On your flap channel:
0% Half Switch(ID0) # This line isn't needed, because the channel will default to 0
50% Half Switch(ID1)
100% Half Switch(ID2)

Keep in mind that to the radio the channels go from -100 to 100. So the middle is at zero. Then 75% would be 50.

-Gohst

[jhsa]

Yeah, my numbers might be a bit off above

[shift1986]

Ghost, can you please explain more thoroughly, how to do what you recommend? To have a backup option, Joao, can you explain how to do your variant?

[shift1986]

Never mind, i figured out how to add extra lines in the mix like Ghost suggested

[Daedalus66]

Go to CH7 (or whatever)
Press MENU, Source HALF, Weight 0, Switch ID0, EXIT
Press MENU, press EDIT, Source HALF, Weight 50, Switch ID0, EXIT
Press MENU, press EDIT, Source HALF, Weight 100, Switch ID0, EXIT
Result on screen:
CH 7 0 HALF ID0
50 HALF ID1
00 HALF ID2

Go to graphic servo home screen and you will see that the 3-position switch does what you asked for.

[MikeB]

CH07: +50% 3POS offset(100%)

Mike.

[Cagey]

how would the elevator be mixed in w/ the 3 position switch? thanx

[MikeB]

I think we need more details of what you wish to achieve.
Do you want the elevator to change when you add flap?
Do you want the flaps to move with the elevator?

Mike.

[Cagey]

as the aircraft slows and the flaps are lowered by using the 3 position switch, the elevator will rise to a predetermined height positions 1 and 2. is it possible to have the flaps and elevator work from a pot to dial the amt of flaperon desired??

[Daedalus66]

Are we talking flaps or flaperons? Note that it is normally preferable to have fixed flap positions so you always know how much you will get. With flaps controlled by a pot, landing are never quite the same twice in a row.

Whether up or down elevator trim is needed to compensate for flap is something to determine experimentally. The mix to elevator from the flap switch can then be set appropriately and fine tuned.

[Cagey]

scratch flaperons. ailerons not in equation. when flaps are deployed isn't the elevator used to counteract the balloon effect and keep the plane balanced? or is better just to adjust elevator as needed?

[ReSt]

The following setup work pretty well for me for a Phoenix2000.

The mixes are controlled with the lower half of the throttle stick:

Flaps fully down

Ailerons up around 70% of their maximum way up
additional mix into ailerons for the downside surface depending on throttle stick position to allow the downside surface to go below neutral position

Elevator down (with a curve) to around 50%, but maximum of 70% at around half way of the flaps

Reinhard

[MikeB]

how would the elevator be mixed in w/ the 3 position switch? thanx

OK, try the following on your elevator channel as a start:
+50% 3POS Offset(100%)
*100% P1 (Multiply Multiplex)
+100% ELE

The first line makes the elevator respond the same as the flaps.
The second line adjusts the direction and amount of elevator movement you get.
The third line then adds in you main elevator control.

In general, when using flaps, before deploying the flaps, first reduce power and slow the model down. Then lower the flaps. You may find you don't get much, if any, ballooning. I have a low wing aerobatic model with flaps. If I don't slow the model first, it does balloon up, but once the speed has dropped, with the flaps down, it settles into a slight nose down attitude and descends without needing any elevator. The flaps stop the speed building.

Mike.

[Daedalus66]

Different models may react very differently to the lowering of flaps - most need down elevator to prevent pitch up, some need up elevator to compensate for pitch down, and the occasional one like Mike's is OK without elevator compensation. You definitely want to have adjustable elevator compensation, as it's hard to hold the necessary amount of elevator stick while landing.

Mike's point about slowing the model down before deploying flaps is very important; flap down at speed is likely to produce dramatic results (such as a loop).

Reinhard's suggestion of raising the ailerons when the flaps go down (negative flaperon or spoileron) is an interesting one. In most cases, what we are seeking from flaps is increased drag, not lift. Raising the ailerons while lowering flaps is a very good way to do this. It avoids one of the main risks of using flaperons, which is that they can make the model prone to tip stalling, while maintaining full aileron control on approach.

Deployment of flaps is a good example of a situation in which the slow function is potentially helpful . But that's another story.

Be sure to experiment cautiously at a safe height to find out how your model reacts to flaps.

[jhsa]

that's how flaps are used (or should be) in 1:1 aircraft too.. First you slow the airplane down and then deploy them slowly.. in real aircraft you can even damage the wing/flaps if you deploy them with a too high speed..

I have a couple models with flaps, and i don't have any ballooning if I respect that rule..

João

[jhsa]

[quote="Daedalus66"
In most cases, what we are seeking from flaps is increased drag, not lift.[/quote]
Allow me to kindly disagree
In most cases what we are seeking from flaps is increased lift at slower speeds so the airplane is able to still fly when flying slower. Very important on landing for example.. Slower the landing, the safer it is Of course one of the disadvantages of this (most of the times) is that drag is increased and needs to be compensated with motor. Of course you can also take advantage of that fact and put the nose down to a steep(er) descent..

João

[Daedalus66]

It depends, of course, on the wing loading, but generally increasing drag helps more than increasing lift on the kinds of model most of us fly. An example is the Habu EDF. The original version without flaps benefits if you use a spoileron arrangement that raises the ailerons, thus increasing drag and reducing lift. The reduced lift in turn requires a higher angle of attack on approach, which further increases drag. The result is a steeper approach and more rapid deceleration on touchdown. Even better, of course, for a light model is a crow setup which lowers flaps and raises ailerons. A heavy model may do better with lowered flaps and drooped ailerons for more lift at low speed.

[Daedalus66]

that's how flaps are used (or should be) in 1:1 aircraft too.. First you slow the airplane down and then deploy them slowly.. in real aircraft you can even damage the wing/flaps if you deploy them with a too high speed..

I have a couple models with flaps, and i don't have any ballooning if I respect that rule..

João

I agree about the need to slow down, but even then many models will not settle into a suitable approach attitude without the use of elevator; many need down trim to avoid slowing down too much.

I seem to recall that a Cessna 172 required a fair bit of down trim when deploying flaps. But I was flying one from the 1950s (before the swept fin) and maybe they fixed the issue after that.

[jhsa]

Trimming is normal in most aircraft as long as you change configuration.. but I guess if we reduce the speed and apply flaps slowly, the chance of ballooning is greatly reduced. It's all about the right speed in my opinion. It has worked for me on a 1:1 or a model. My easystar modified with ailerons and then of course flaperons, doesn't have any nasty tendency when applying flaps. I just have to be careful when applying full flaps because the ailerons become not so efficient. So, full flaps only when it's nice and calm

João

[Cagey]

[quote=Deployment of flaps is a good example of a situation in which the slow function is potentially helpful ."

I enjoyed and learned from this discussion. But the flaps lowering slowly is the best. how would slowing down the lowering of the flaps be entered into the 3 position switch programming? And Thank You for sharing your thoughts and knowledge Everyone.
Kevin

[Cagey]

Mike-
I will enter those lines to learn. but I like the advice of keeping the elevator on stick. I live where the final approach to Newark airport is overhead. At times its very easy to hear the flaps on the commercial aircraft lower. Its a sound of its own when ya hear it enough.
Thanks for the program.
Kevin

[Cagey]

my understanding is that by lowering the flaps the shape of the wing is modified into a configuration giving more lift at the landing and take off speeds.

[jhsa]

At takeoff it is a compromise. Normally very little or none. The reason is the disadvantage of the flaps.. drag.. too much and it would prevent the plane from increasing speed faster.

João

[Daedalus66]

my understanding is that by lowering the flaps the shape of the wing is modified into a configuration giving more lift at the landing and take off speeds.

That is by definition what flaps (and other devices such as leading edge slats) do. They change the airfoil to increase the camber, thereby increasing both lift and drag.

As pointed out, however, requirements for landing and takeoff are different. For landing, the aim is to slow things down whereas for takeoff the need is to accelerate to takeoff and climb speed as rapidly as possible. Thus takeoff requires a relatively low drag setting. Typically, flaps go down 60-75 degrees for landing while the takeoff setting might be 0 to 20 degrees.

[Krazyman]

I can not figure out how to make the 3 position flap switch make my ailerons work as spoilers. I just wish someone could tell me how to do it in plain simple, non technical language, and maybe some photos of what the screen should look like when done. I also don't have a clue as to what EEPE is or where to get it if I need it. A friend of mine flashed my FS-TH9X with er9x version 813. So all I have is the radio and I have been going crazy trying to figure out how to mix anything. I need to be able to mix the rudder to ailerons, elevator to throttle, and have the ailerons act as spoilerons or flaperons. If someone could please help I would be very grateful.

Terry

[MikeB]

eepe is here: http://code.google.com/p/eepe/source/br ... nstall.zip. Click on the "view raw file" and you should get the option to save it. I had to use a .zip file as googlecode have blocked the download of .exe files.
After saving the .zip file, extract the .exe file inside it and run it to install eepe.

Once you have eepe running, you can play with the mixer a bit more easily than on the radio itself.

Once you get the hang of how the mixer works, it is quite easy, you just need to think a bit differently.

You want to mix some rudder movement in when you move the ailerons. You do this on the channel you have the rudder.
Suppose you are using channel 4 for the rudder, you should have a mix like this:
CH04: +100% RUD
This means channel 4 moves fully each way (100%) as you move the RUDder stick. Now you want some rudder movement when you move the aileron stick as well, so just add a second mix to channel 4:
CH04: +10% AIL
This gives just 10% of rudder movement when you move the AILeron stick. So you have TWO mixes on channel 4:
CH04: +100% RUD
+10% AIL

Hope this helps to get you started.

Mike.

[Krazyman]

eepe is here: http://code.google.com/p/eepe/source/br ... nstall.zip. Click on the "view raw file" and you should get the option to save it. I had to use a .zip file as googlecode have blocked the download of .exe files.
After saving the .zip file, extract the .exe file inside it and run it to install eepe.

Once you have eepe running, you can play with the mixer a bit more easily than on the radio itself.

Once you get the hang of how the mixer works, it is quite easy, you just need to think a bit differently.

You want to mix some rudder movement in when you move the ailerons. You do this on the channel you have the rudder.
Suppose you are using channel 4 for the rudder, you should have a mix like this:
CH04: +100% RUD
This means channel 4 moves fully each way (100%) as you move the RUDder stick. Now you want some rudder movement when you move the aileron stick as well, so just add a second mix to channel 4:
CH04: +10% AIL
This gives just 10% of rudder movement when you move the AILeron stick. So you have TWO mixes on channel 4:
CH04: +100% RUD
+10% AIL

Hope this helps to get you started.

Mike.

Mike, what screen do I use to do this? Do I have to change source or switch? Can you send me a picture of the screen showing what this mix will look like?

Terry

[jhsa]

Like this.