Tips and Tricks for sail plane setup

Programing help and example for all firmwares based on thus's th9 firmware.
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ReSt
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Tips and Tricks for sail plane setup

Post by ReSt » Wed May 23, 2012 9:04 pm

I found these tips a while ago and I'm extracting the, for me, most important infos about how to setup a sailplane.

I'm sure, there are a lot of different ways to setup a model, but here are some basic tips.
These are the controls we are after: Aileron, elevator, rudder, brake (butterfly) and flaps (camber).

Aileron:
We wish aileron on all wing surfaces. To fly only thermal one can only use the outer surfaces (ailerons). As soon as we are on F3F/F3B we want half the amount aileron deflection on the inner surfaces (flaps).

Differential:
To make a model to turn better, we need differential. This mix makes the ailerons and flaps go less down than up. A simple guidance for thermal flying: 1/3 - 1/2 down versus 1 up. Speed and acro: 1/2 or equal down versus up.

Elevator:
As a main rule, you want equal amount up elevator as down. The more aft CG (Center of gravity), the less elevator throw. If the model gets very sensitive, have less down elevator or use exponential. Normal exponential is 20 - 40%.

Kick-Flap:
is a mix, that allows all surfaces to move togehter with the elevator. All surfaces down = more camber/lift and thereby same as elevator up throw. And of course opposite. On a new model I would always start without this mix.

Rudder for T- or X-Tail:
Equal to each side but not more than that it actually works. Too much and the rudder will slow you down or make it tip-stall.

Rudder for V-Tail:
Equal up/down but may be model dependant. If the model sets its nose down much, you can reduce the down slightly.

Combi-Switch:
It will give you automatical rudder movement when you use your ailerons . This is fine coming into a turn but will have the opposite effect coming out of the turn. So turn this mix OFF.

Brake or Butterfly or Crow:
The butterfly function should be on your throttle stick. Forward full speed and back for brake. With full brake the following should happen:
Ailerons slightly up (5-10mm), flaps as far down as possible and elevator slightly down as compensation for the increased lift of the wing. Compensation on butterfly should be dialed in at both half and full brake. The model should put nose slightly down to maintain airspeed. Often a model will need more compensation on half break than full. If not possible to set two settings then reduce the flap to 60 - 70 degrees. Mostly this is sufficient to give enough brake anyhow.


Camber means changing of airfoils lift.

Start camber:
When we start with winch/runners one needs to have a bigger camber / more lift on the wing than the model is produced with. Dependant of model type, condition and hook position you will need 10 - 30 degree launching camber. As a general rule you want equal camber on flaps and aileron surfaces.

Speed flaps:
When flying speed and distance we often want a faster airfoil. This is done by all surfaces on the wing going up 1 - 5 degrees.

Thermal flaps:
When flying duration and partly distance we want to change the airfoil so that it becomes more lifting (1-10 degrees). This is done by all surfaces on the wing going down. As a main rule you want more camber the better the air you are flying in. When you find the lift, you use as much as possible but not so much, that the model becomes "low tail" or critical to fly. Most pilots adjust thermal flaps by a switch or maybe two. Some like to adjust it on a lever.


Reinhard

ReSt
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Re: Tips and Tricks for sail plane setup

Post by ReSt » Wed May 23, 2012 9:16 pm

According to the above info and from richardmrazek's videos I have setup a plane.

As I have not yet flown a fullhouse glider, I do not know, if all these setups are useful or correct. I'm not sure about the trims, and flight mode trims probably should be used.



My tx setup is mode 1
Aileron and throttle on the right stick, rudder and elevator on the left stick.

Looking into flight direction, the channels are right aileron (1) to right flap (2), left flap (3) left aileron (4), elevator (5), rudder (6), and throttle (7).

Switches:

The "RUD/DR" switch is the safety switch for the motor.

As some kind of emergency device, the "THR CUT" switch changes the setup between simple 4 channel mode and full house glider modes.

Three flight modes 'start', 'glide' and 'brake' are selected with ID0, ID1, ID2 switch

"ELE/DR" (plus "RUD/DR") switch activates the motor in the glide mode (ID1).

"AIL/DR" switch activates 40% Expo for ailerons.





Simple 4channel mode:
Use this mode, if you lost overview of all the implemented functions.
Aileron, elevon, rudder and throttle are controlled by their corresponding stick. There are no mixes applied.

ID0 Start mode:
Motor is controlled with full range of throttle stick.
Ailerons and flaps are controlled differentially with the aileron's stick.
All surfaces on one wing move into the same direction.
Flaps have less throw than ailerons.
Rudder is independant from aileron.
With elevator up, the flaps move slightly down (kick flap)

ID1 Glide mode:
Full throttle stick range controlls camber. All surfaces slightly go up (stick away from you) for speed flight or down (stick near to you) for thermal flight.
Center beep of throttle stick signals neutral position of camber.
Aileron stick controlls only ailerons (no flaps) and gives a slight move to the rudder.
With elevator up, the flaps move slightly down (kick flap)
The motor is controlled with "ELE/DR" switch and pot P3. When the motor is activated via the switch, it is slowly started with 3 second slow up and/or down time.

ID2 Break mode (Butterfly or Crow):
The throttle stick has combined function of throttle and crow.
In the upper third (away from your body), the stick fully controls the motor from stop to max.

In the neutral position all surfaces are in their neutral position and the motor is switched off.
Neutral stick position is signalled by the center beep.

In the lower half of the stick the motor is off and the stick controls the crow position.
The flaps go down as far as possible.
The ailerons go up to compensate the increased lift.
The elevator goes down via a curve to keep the necessary air speed. It's farthest down for half way of the flaps.
Rudder is not activated by aileron
Elevator only controlled by elvator stick. No mixes.

In an emergency situation, you push the stick away from you and all surfaces (slowly) return to normal and the motor goes to full speed.


Mixers

Code: Select all

CH01   +80%AIL Curve(c1)	                                      differential, normal
       +20%CH15                                                                Camber (ID1)
       +90%CH13                                                                Crow (ID2)

CH02   +50%CH1 Switch(SW1) noTrim                               Flaps as aileron (ID0)
       -10%ELE Switch(!SW6) noTrim Curve(x<0)                  Kick-flaps with elevator high
       +20%CH15 Curve(c2)                                                 Camber (ID1)
       -100%CH13 noTrim                                                    Crow (ID2)

CH03   -50%CH4 Switch(SW1) noTrim                                Flaps as aileron (ID0)
       +10%ELE Switch(!SW6) noTrim Curve(x<0)                  Kick flaps with elevator high
       -20%CH15 Curve(c2)                                                  Camber (ID1)
       +100%CH13 noTrim                                                    Crow (ID2)

CH04   +80%AIL Curve(c2)                                                 differential, normal
       +20%CH15                                                                 Camber (ID1)
       +90%CH13                                                                 Crow (ID2)

CH05   -80%ELE                                                                Elevon, normal
       +50%CH13 Curve(c10)                                                Compensation with crow (ID2)

CH06   +100%RUD                                                             full Rudder, normal
     R +80%RUD Switch(SW2)                                              reduced rudder with Combi switch (ID1)
       +30%AIL Switch(SW2) noTrim                                     aileron part with combi switch (ID1)

CH07   -100%HALF                                                            Motor off
     R +100%THR Switch(!THR)                                           required for slow up/down
     R +100%THR Switch(SW1)                                            motor control start (ID0)
     R +100%THR Switch(SW3) Curve(c9)                             motor control break (ID2)
     R +100%P3 Switch(SW5) Slow(u3:d3)                             motor control glide (ID1)
CH08
CH09
CH10
CH11
CH12

Throttle stick usage with Crow (ID2)
CH13   +100%CH14 Slow(u3:d3)
CH14   +100%THR Switch(SW3) noTrim Curve(x<0)

Throttle stick usage with Glide (ID1) 
CH15   -100%CH16 Slow(u3:d3)
CH16   +100%THR Switch(SW2) noTrim

The custom switches:
SW1  Thr And ID0
Sw2   Thr And ID1
Sw3   Thr And ID2
Sw4   !ELE And Sw2
Sw5   ELE And Sw2
Sw6   !Thr OR Sw3


Safety Switch
CH7  !RUD -100

Curves
Cv1  50 25 0 -50 -100
Cv2  -100 -50 0 25 50

Cv9  -100 -100 -100 -100 -100 -100 -38  26  100
Cv10 -33  -65  -74  -35  0  0  0  0  0
Reinhard

mmilan
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Re: Tips and Tricks for sail plane setup

Post by mmilan » Fri May 25, 2012 2:45 pm

Beautiful short treatise on sailplane setup. Do you have an eepe file to share or did I miss it?

ReSt
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Re: Tips and Tricks for sail plane setup

Post by ReSt » Fri May 25, 2012 4:29 pm

This is my eePe file.

I have added one more mix on ch16,
"* +45%P1 Offset(125%)"

This mix allows to reduce the range of the camber in glide mode (from 10 -100%) with pot P1


Reinhard
Attachments
Phoenix.eepe
(1.3 KiB) Downloaded 275 times

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Tommhy
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Re: Tips and Tricks for sail plane setup

Post by Tommhy » Sat May 26, 2012 12:06 pm

Thanks for the mixes and also for the explanation on each mix feature! Very useful for a novice like me! :D


mmilan
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Re: Tips and Tricks for sail plane setup

Post by mmilan » Sun May 27, 2012 11:04 am

ReSt wrote:This is my eePe file.

I have added one more mix on ch16,
"* +45%P1 Offset(125%)"

This mix allows to reduce the range of the camber in glide mode (from 10 -100%) with pot P1


Reinhard
Thank you, and your programming is very cleaver!

ReSt
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Re: Tips and Tricks for sail plane setup

Post by ReSt » Mon May 28, 2012 5:05 pm

First flight with this setup brought up a problem.

Aileron trim moves all four surfaces in the same direction!

So I added an 'Aileron Trim only' channel to CH1 and now trim works as it should do.

This used up the last available three mixes. All 32 possible mixes are used now.

So whoever finds a way to save one or another mix should post it.

btw,
the scalable camber mix with pot3 can be removed as soon as one knows, how much max camber is to be used for the model

I'm adding the updated file.


Reinhard
Reinhard
Attachments
Phoenix.eepe
with corrected AIL trim
(1.3 KiB) Downloaded 309 times

jolasa
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Re: Tips and Tricks for sail plane setup

Post by jolasa » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:06 am

In the last file above:

Which switches are the L switches? There are no L switches on my 9xr Pro.

And what setting is noTrim?

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jhsa
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Re: Tips and Tricks for sail plane setup

Post by jhsa » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:04 am

It seems you have an extremely old version of Ersky9x installed on your radio. I suggest you update it. In older versions I believe the logical switches were called "Sw1, Sw2, etc.."

"No trim" when editing a mix means that the trim is not active in that mix.

João

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bob195558
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Re: Tips and Tricks for sail plane setup

Post by bob195558 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:52 am

L Switches are not physical switches on the outside of your 9xr-pro.
They are virtual switches used in your erSky9x firmware.

Logical Switches, were previously called Custom Switches.
They produce an ON or OFF output based on a logical operation to compare values and/or assess logical conditions (e.g., which switches are ON).
As virtual switches, they can be used in programming anywhere a switch can be selected.
They will turn on when the logical condition being tested is verified (true).

For User Manuals, for now use the Er9x Manual, find it here: (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6473).
(Note: Being created is an ErSky9x Manual, it is not ready for release yet.)
In the Er9x Manual go to Logical Switches and Trim for more info.

Also you can see the 9XR-Pro Manuals for erSky9x: (viewtopic.php?f=122&t=5575#p79483).
Er9x/Ersky9x Video Tutorials: (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... qcuIqJXhb9).

When Trim is ON, any trim value for the channel will be carried through the mix.
When OFF, any trim value is ignored.

Also you should update to the newest erSky9x firmware if you have not yet done so (http://www.er9x.com/).
The INFO in the beginning this string is 5 years old and er9x / erSky9x has had a lot of changes since then.

Bob B.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme, Er9x on 9x with Smartieparts Programmer with TelemetrEZ Board
(http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=7182).
CR10 3D Printer: (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=10702)

jolasa
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Re: Tips and Tricks for sail plane setup

Post by jolasa » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:24 pm

Which version of ersky9x do I have to flash to get Logical L switches?

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bob195558
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Re: Tips and Tricks for sail plane setup

Post by bob195558 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:03 pm

ERSKY9X (revision 220): ersky9x for 9XR-PRO
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme, Er9x on 9x with Smartieparts Programmer with TelemetrEZ Board
(http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=7182).
CR10 3D Printer: (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=10702)

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