Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, including 9x

Where to find parts? Refactoring your entire transmitter, new cases? Sticks etc..
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rperkins
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:26 pm

Thanks for the feedback.
That's a good idea to test both channels at once. I went as far as to verify that once a receiver bound on one channel it wasnt affected by the other. I have measured the channel differences on the scope (120ms -vs 180ms) .

Where I would focus your attention is when:
1. Two heli's flying. chA and chB
2. ChA heli pulls throttle to 0.
3. Is chB heli affected.
4. Reverse process to check other channel.

I added some delays in the sketch when when the throttle is at 0 to allow elevator contol until heli is landed. Also tried to account for when throttle is set to 0 for just a second and then resume flight. This happens a lot to me when i panic and over compensate. Lastly tried to set the delay so it works appropriately on both channels.

Concerning current flow in led. Remember it is pulsed and has a large gap between transitions. Duty cycle is definitely less than 50%. I cranked them up so far they got warm. I wonder if the blue cover over the led's in the original tx helped to focus or disperse the light ? And remember we do have battery voltage at the module bay , but that voltage can vary depending on how we are powering the 9x and the amount of charge on the battery.

I used some cheap HK batteries as replacemments. They diidnt fit real well and do not have the charging circuit built in to them. I modified one heli by removing diode in receiver. I cut usb plug off of charging cable and charge heli with the same lipo charger that i use for the rest of my lipos. If the battery fit better i would say go for it. But it doesnt. I gave out a lot of these heli's 2 christmas's ago and people who left heli on charge permanently had battery fail.

What heli should i add next ?

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:43 am

rperkins wrote:I added some delays in the sketch when the throttle is at 0 to allow elevator control until heli is landed.
Does ELE even work when throttle is at 0? Would have to check but I think not. Will put it on my list for things to check.
rperkins wrote:Also tried to account for when throttle is set to 0 for just a second and then resume flight.
Although my flight was short due to a dead battery it feld good, no hickups, just smooth. The battery is replaced now and I will do another test-flight tonight. Overcompensating happens to me too, it's caused by the coaxial-design reacting slow. But I'm too slow myself for a CP :mrgreen:
About current: I don't like the battery-voltage on the JR-plug because of possible different types of batteries. So there should be a regulator in the design. No biggie, but that is one of the reasons I was/am thinking about putting the board inside the TX and I already replaced the 7805 on the powerboard for a beefier one to support this.
rperkins wrote:I cut usb plug off of charging cable...
I removed the cable from the original TX for just that same plan :lol:
My son and I both have a s107 and they are charged together for the same duration; his is still going strong and my battery became twice as thick: dead. We both stop flying as soon as the heli starts loosing lift. Oh well, I had a spare and they don't cost much. So the circuit on the battery against over-charging doesn't do it's job very well then? Should I remove that circuit when using a LiPo-charger?


TheList:
- check ELE when throttle is 0
- two heli's together (your checklist)
- decide on module-case or internal build
- Does blue transparent plastic do any filtering to IR light?
- what is the correct wavelength for the IR LED's?
- what is the preferred lens-angle for the LED's
- next heli will be....
-

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:26 am

The elevator works when the throttle is at 0 for 360ms + (i * 40ms),where i is a range of 1-3, depending on which channel we are using and when exactly the throttle becomes at 0. Then the IR Led is turned off completely. I didnt really measure or verify the 40ms part. That is what the author of the IRrc library wrote is how long the MCU blocks when sending out a command for the IR protocol that his heli utilized. Both protocols are similar but not exactly the same. But you get the idea So the elevator isnt on for long, but I think it's on for a little bit :)

I am using this IR-Led which is 940nm wavelength, 100ma continuous - 200ma peak , although the radiant power is only given for up to 100ma. 22 degree view angle.
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-st ... TER/1.html

I have no idea how it compares to the original IR led's. I burned them up.

I personally prefer the module case but can see your reasons for wanting to go internal. If you go internal are you also going to install your usbasp for your 9x internally ? Maybe have a small switch on the reset line for which MCU you want to reprogram.

There is at least other protocol used for S107, the 24 bit version. I dont have one of those. Maybe someone will come along and say they wish their helicopter would work in a 9x and we'll try to oblige :)

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:05 pm

Saw your post on the old thread pointing here.. thanks. I reviewed this thread, cleaned it up a little, and saw a request for syma s026g. Those seem pretty popular.
http://www.symatoys.com/product/show/1861.html
Ordered one off ebay for < $25. Will take a month probably to get here. Goal is to get the structure in place to support multiple protocols (heli's) without having to reflash avr.

If you find something you wanna add that's cool too. We can work em both.

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:38 am

About pointing to this thread: your project really deserves it!

Well, a while back you mentioned:
rperkins wrote:Last thing I was thinking was a feedback to the user . I'm thinking a good old led. It wont use too much power will it ? I was thinking it will be on when your not transmitting and blink when you are. Also when you first power up it will slowly blink once or twice to indicate what channel your on. We dont need it now but if additional protocols are added it could be used to demonstrate which one is active. Plus LED's are cheap and the usbasp board I eventually want this to run on already has a couple.
and that would be a nice addition. I'm browsing for a JR-module case but they are not cheap (and I am :) ) so I'm leaning towards building inside and while the TX is open I can add a LED easily.

Last night I flew the heli together with another one at the same time. There were no problems whatsoever. Throttle to zero had no effect on the other chopter and also tried this on the other channel. Did however had two small problems: one time the binding was gone and ones it just fell out of the air. Guess both have been range-problems because I'm still on one LED on half power. But I'm really happy with the result.


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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:13 am

OK. Do you think I am on the right track concerning how the led should blink. I just threw that initial idea out there and hadnt really given it much thought
1. slow blink at first based on channel
2. solid when not transmitting ( throttle at 0)
3. faster blinking when transmitting ( throttle > 0)

Do you have a preference what pin it is attached to. I am thinking PC0, which avr328 pin23. It;s called A0 in arduino talk. I am picking that one because usbasp uses that for the green led, and if I ever transition the code to run on $4 piece of hardware, that will be it.

hmm little weird. the schematic on http://www.fischl.de/usbasp/ shows the green led on PC1 but the code calls it out on PC0. No matter really as the betemcu.cn programmer doesnt use consistent colors on their LED's anyway, IIR.

I can get a power led change done right away so you can solder it in and get it buttoned up. It may take a bit to get the flashing right if I have to use a timer.

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:21 am

I got a LED on arduino pin A0. Currently it is on all the time. The package has been updated. Only the sketch has changed. No updates in the library.
The pin is an active low. that means you should wire the ground side of the Led to the pin, then run led and current limiting resistor to 5v supply.
>>---arduino pin A0 ------->>Led------->>current_limiting_resistor---------->>5vdc

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:27 pm

Thanks for this.
The sketch is loaded and the LED works. But now the real functionality.......
No hurry :) still have to decide what next. Although I'm pretty sure I'm going to scavange the original TX for it's LED's and put everything inside. Also because I'm never going to use the original TX anymore now I'm using only mode-2. Finally the batteries for my v911 arrived and now have two models plus the sim on my 9x!
Man, that v911 is something else!

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:53 pm

Ok, did my best on the sketch for the functionality of the LED.
- It shows the channel during startup (small problem though....)
- It is off when throttle is idle
- It blinks when throttle is not idle (no "delay()")

about the small problem: because you preferred A0 with active=LOW the LED is already on before the sketch is executed. When the program is started it must first go out before able to blink x-times for channel A or B. This is ugly and I prefer to change to "active=HIGH". At the moment the LED blinks twice for channel-A and four times for Channel-B. Again: ugly, but is for showing that it works. Details, details...

Please tell me what you think of it.
IrModuleStartABplus.zip
(2.24 KiB) Downloaded 217 times
Last edited by C4Vette on Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:13 pm

Thanks.
I am at work right now but was able to view the sketch.

Looks good to me. I like the way you read the led output as an input and used its inverted value as the new led state. Also liked how you did not use delay in the loop when the heli is flying.

I used active low because that is how the hardware I'd like to eventually transition to is wired. We can make it active high and if I ever use the other hardware we will make it a conditional option. If you want to change the sketch for active high , post it here and I will add it to the tarball. I'll credit you as C4Vette unless you prefer something else :)

Thanks for improving the program

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:05 am

No credits needed, just helping out where I can. Besides, the LED was your idea and I just Googled some code together. I'm no developer, just a little experience with scripting (bash, html, etc).
Too bad there are not more people joining this topic. I think the project worked out great and is not hard to copy. Last thing I'm going to do is scrap the original TX and transplant it's LED's to the 9X. In a few weeks the last parts I orderd will be in and the 9X will be finished....
Already done:
- open9X
- replaced 7805
- LiFe battery
- backlight with pot (small hole on top of TX) running from 7805 via bs170
- haptic mod (2 motors from phone) via bs170
- sound mod (piezo)
- mini-USB in battery-tray
- USBasp inside TX
NEXT: place arduino with irModule inside; LED's on top; FTDI via ps2-connector in place of TX charge-conn and a small switch (somewhere?) to route ppm-signal and power.
By then summer has begun and I will be flying my v911 outdoors until fall :) and the s107g will be a shellf-queen until then. She will stay my favorite for in-doors.

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:26 pm

Did a small edit in the sketch for the LED.
It bothered me that the LED was not on when the program was running. And to be honest, yesterday I didn't succeed in reversing on/off situation. The next mornig it was clear to me :) and now the function of the LED is as follows:
- is on as soon as sketch is started
- blinks ones for channel-A and twice for channel-B (much more logical)
- stays on while throttle is zero
- blinks (little faster) when throttle is not zero.

Now I think the goals are met and the few lines of code are even simpler.

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by mmilan » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:15 pm

C4vette,
When you complete this project, (when you get it into your 9x), maybe you could put in the Wiki! I may try to get the same working for the Drift King and some other brand IR helis. I will have to learn more about the arduino before starting. Thanks for the work, although it looks as though it has been fun. I have transplanted the guts of a Drift King Tx into a "donor" ds6m Tx. The better pots in the gimbles make this heli 100x smoother in all axis and esp throttle. Anyway, a Wiki might make it easier for a novice (like me) to have a module for one of my 9xs.
Thanks
Mike

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:17 am

C4Vette wrote:Did a small edit in the sketch for the LED.
thanks for the improvement. I updated the package to include your changes.
mmilan wrote: I may try to get the same working for the Drift King and some other brand IR helis.
That'd be cool. I'd never heard of the Drift King. Did a quick search and see that it it 4 channels. A protocol search came up empty but I didnt dig deep. Have you seen any threads where someone decoded the protocol for the Drift King ? If you do move forward with this I'd love to add support for this heli to the IrModule

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:12 pm

mmilan wrote:C4vette,
When you complete this project, (when you get it into your 9x), maybe you could put in the Wiki! I may try to get the same working for the Drift King and some other brand IR helis. I will have to learn more about the arduino before starting. Thanks for the work, although it looks as though it has been fun. I have transplanted the guts of a Drift King Tx into a "donor" ds6m Tx. The better pots in the gimbles make this heli 100x smoother in all axis and esp throttle. Anyway, a Wiki might make it easier for a novice (like me) to have a module for one of my 9xs.
Thanks
Mike
Hello Mike, welcome aboard!
For me the project has been fun indeed, but I'm just a copy-cat. Randy (rperkins) has done all the hard work.
Did not think of the Wiki yet but was planning to make a blog about this. When I do the built-in to the 9X I will make pictures and post them one way or another.

Ed

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by mmilan » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:02 pm

Thanks C4Vette and rperkins, I have not seen any published protocols for the drift king. It's just the heli I was given 3 years ago. I now have 6 of them as I was always repairing them then. That inspired a resurrection of 6 of my very old rc planes and sailplanes as well as moving up gradually to several cp Helis. Now I am trying to slowly learn electronics through the 9x mods among other projects. I still enjoy flying the coaxials indoors in the winter and rainy days. So..... I may have to by trial and error figure out the protocols for the infrared Helis when I get to it. These are a whole lot more fun to fly with a good transmitter! Hopefully your project will be layer out in a blog or Wiki so I can more easily wrap my head around it. I don't yet understand electronics well enough for all of this to be intuitive. Soldering skills are easy for me on a micro scale as my real job is a plastic surgeon.
Thanks for your encouragement
Mike

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:16 pm

This is what I have right now as a blog with the source code.
http://www.randyperkins.com/index.php/irmodule

I was able to copy the S107 protocol so I didnt decode that myself. I have a syma S026G coming and I plan on adding that to the IrModule. There is some information on its protocol so I wont be starting from scratch on that one either.

If you decide to try to decode the protocol yourself I can point you to posts where others have done it. I do have an Open Bench Logic Sniffer that I intend to put to use if necessary but have seen people get good results using an IR receiver and linux command line tools.

You probably have one of the original tx's you could tap into also. Possibly after I get the S026G integrated and get a routine established you could send me a TX and maybe I could decode it. I see you are in MI, so relatively speaking we are neighbors :)

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by mmilan » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:10 pm

Looks like I will have to get an arduino and play with it to learn it. I will be glad to send you a Tx of the drift king when the time comes. I do not have the equipment to decode the IR signal. I have been searching online to see if it has been done already, but no success.
Mike

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:40 pm

I've had lots of fun with my arduino. Buying the shields and cheap devices to interact with the arduino is addictive in itself. More than likely an arduino and an IR receiver could be used help to decode the protocol or at least gather the data to allow it to be done but I am just thinking out loud, dont have a link in front of me showing how.

Cool , I'll Pm you when I am ready. expect about a month. If I dont get back with you just contact me. It was C4vette's interest that has kept me motivated :) . Eventually I would like to offer a module JR module that is ready to go, but that is just in the planning stages at this time.

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:26 pm

@rperkins

Hi Randy, when flying on channel-B it happened a few times now that the heli would not respond anymore. What actually happens is that the TX switched to channel-A :shock: and the other heli (my son's) started to react, and crash :lol:

To rule out it was caused by my additional code for the LED I flashed your original v04 but it still happens. I'm quite sure this didn't happen in the previous version. Could this be caused by the code you added for turning off the LED's when throttle is zero? I'm not completely sure yet but I think it happens right after when the throttle has been down for a few seconds. But not always.

Ed

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:23 pm

Yes I can see how that can happen. Thanks for pointing it out. It's not permanently switching to channel A. The section that sends out the pulses a few times after the throttle is at zero does not follow the timing spacing for the channels so it is interfering with the other channel.

I have a fix in mind and will get it in later today or this weekend at the latest.

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:07 pm

Ok see if this is better. The IR led should go out immediately when throttle is at zero and not affect other channel. Note this time around the library file "libraries/IRrc/s107_r5.cpp" was updated as well as the sketch. Download ver .07 from the same url as before. Let me know if you find any other issues. Luckily my daughters are here and we briefly flew two helicopters at once with the new code.

Currently I am finishing up one other project and then the S026G should be here and I can start on getting that included

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:43 pm

My apologies for the late reply but first had to complete the transplant from the LED's to the TX and now the arduino is also inside. All together wih the extra led and a toggle switch to choose between ir and rf.
Version 0.7 seems a succes :D
Everything works, no hick-ups or channel changing. I have the three LED's in series with a 2 ohm resistor via a bs170 fet to Vbatt (10v). Range seems ok.

Once again thank you for the great code and fast support!

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:37 am

The S026G came in. It flies ok but reminds me of a flying hotdog :) It feels bigger than it is when flying, like there is a whole tank in there. Should be able to get started including it into the module within a week. It sure was nice having C4Vette beta test the S107. Maybe someone out there is interested in flying the S026G from a 9x. ?? Thinking of getting it up and running as a standalone sketch before I try to merge multiple protocols into one sketch.
20130408_132614.jpg

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by Promix » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:04 pm

rperkins wrote: Maybe someone out there is interested in flying the S026G from a 9x. ??
20130408_132614.jpg
Yeah, here I am !!! :)

Watching this thread from the beginning and was hoping this will become true for 9x.
I love the very special and great sound of the S026G while flying.

....... Well, I`m your man :D

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:30 pm

Cool. Yea the S026 has a more ballzzee sound to it.

What is your comfort level or thoughts on hardware ? Self assemble or do you want me to send you something ? Do you have a programmer and are able to program updates to whatever hardware you end up with ?

I flew mine some more last night after a full charge. There are front and back buttons to trim it fore/aft. I am thinking those buttons removed and just use the trim buttons on the 9x. That is how the rudder trim is handled in the S107.

Thanks for offering to help out

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by Promix » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:47 pm

No hardware needed from your side, thanks. I would like to go with an Arduino mini board like C4Vette does.
I found these links about S026 code, maybe some helpful stuff in there for your hack.
S026 (1)
S026 (2)
Yes, I think stick trim will work fine. But what about yaw gyro trim ? On S026 there is a pot for L/R trim.

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:22 am

Glad you are getting your hardware. I have plenty of m8 boards but the code isnt there yet. See below. I'd have to build a m328 prototype. Thanks for the links. That second one with 'processing' looks helpful if the information from this thread doesnt work out.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost ... stcount=47

The yaw trim is handled by the trim buttons associated with that stick on the S107. Hopefully that will work with the S026G also.

-- some general information updates --

This weekend will work on getting s026 working in its own sketch using a 328mcu. That should allow Promix to begin testing.

I emailed with the Author of the IRrc library, Mike McCauley. The IRrc library is utilized in the IRmodule project. I am anticipating as this code begins to support multiple protocols and MCU's , that some of the library files would need modified. I asked him what his plans for the library were and he responded:
No current plans to add support for new helis.
Problem is there are many protocols in use, and I dont have examples of them all. But if you want to contribute compatible changes for other helis, I will consider them.
My question is:
Should we move forward keeping the code compatible with the IRrc library ? (It has some nice examples for using a joystick,serial control, or even a wifi shield with an iphone as a controller) Or should we just take what we need from IRrc and create the most beneficial code for controlling multiple IR helis using an RC tx and a ppm input ?

I'd like to keep IRmodule as compatible with IRrc, just not sure how much energy to expend on that , or if it will even be possible.

I need this code to run on atmega8 as i have lots of development boards that use that mcu. Currently IRrc uses timer 2 in phase correct pwm utilizing 2 channels to generate the 38khz IR carrier. The atmega8 only has one channel on timer2. IRrc uses one channel for the frequency, and one channel for the duty cycle. Pretty sure we can get a 50% duty cycle 38khz wave generated with only one channel. Maybe I'll look at that attiny code Promix linked to above.

No news on a case. Would like something that allows access to the ISP port (or maybe down the road, USB) on the pcb to allow firmware updates. Maybe a good job for a 3d printer ?

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:28 am

Good to see that the project is going on! If I needed to start over I would have a look at the Arduino Nano because it already has a USB-mini port on the board. If it is possible to find a position to make use of that it would make things a little easier.

Found a, very small, little quirk: if the IR-module is started on channel-B with the first heli, another heli cannot be started on channel-A :?
If the IR-module is then switched of the second heli on channel-A can bind fine. Then start the IR-module again and the heli (still powered on) also works. As I said, not a real problem, just a power-on sequence thingy.

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:40 pm

hmm.. So you are using one IRmodule and one syma TX ? Have you tried 2 syma TX to see if they have the same issue? It makes sense as the heli locks onto the first channel it sees and has no way of knowing that that TX is already controlling another heli. I can remember flying 2 helis at the same time with one syma tx. Couldnt fly very well or very long though :)

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