EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

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bob195558
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EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by bob195558 » Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:53 pm

E A S A banding RC Hobby.jpg
There are a new set of rules which have recently be published by E A S A (the European version of the CAA and FAA).
In response to a series of Drone scares, and fears about their safety, they have decided to release a massive document of
safety regulations called the prototype.
The Frist Document is 72 pages long and the second is a 60 page explanatory document (these are not half assed regulations).
Unfortunately, it targets us DIY guys, the people who actually put in the most effort and care when it comes to safety.
(http://droneinsider.org/new-easa-drone- ... -industry/)

Here is some Youtube videos about E A S A new set of rules:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akdsVdOUuuk#t=59.311271)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZhfQox6dDo)

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by OctavioS » Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:12 pm

https://www.change.org/p/https-www-easa ... m=copylink
Sign the petition. This regulation is really limiting for europe. For what i understood there is a separate petition for UK citizens.
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa » Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:16 pm

We can all thank the idiots that like to fly above the clouds as they say.
A couple months ago I've read that there was an idiot flying INSIDE the perimeter of the Lisbon International airport, and was spotted by a military aircraft landing on Runway 03.
Also last summer the pilots from a Ryanair aircraft also saw a drone fly close to their aircraft at about 1000 meters high while approaching Faro Airport in Portugal.
Also a while ago there was an idiot flying his drone right on the approach area of runway 28 at Faro airport. He posted a video flying at 1500 meters high. I wrote a comment on his video letting him know that his drone was right on the approach, in case he didn't know. he wrote back saying that he checked and on that day the airplanes were landing from the other side.
The stupid idiot didn't even think that if the airplanes land from the other side, they also take off from the other side, putting him and his stupid drone right on their path. :(

This is the main reason why one day we won't be able to do any RC flying.

And I agree, that for FPV, except perhaps drone racing at low altitude, the people should at least make a course to learn the rules and to know how to behave while flying. If you want to share the airspace with REAL pilots, you have to at least know the rules, so you don't put anyone in danger.

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa » Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:24 pm

This is a TV show, but it could very well happen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKIKP4gLl2c
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa » Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:55 pm

And something real:
Safety rule - Do not fly models over people or property. Certainly not in populated areas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brLytQLJ9qw
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by bob195558 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:15 am

Should then (is the answer to fix the problem) all flying needs to be prohibited ? :?:

WE will lose good times like this: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uicZtqTYITU).
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:51 am

As some people don't really care about the lives of other people seating on an aircraft, or even standing on the ground. Some people do not respect the privacy of other people.
In my opinion, there are 2 ways that might prevent someone from getting really hurt, or even killed.
1 - education. Go back to allow RC model flying only in designated places like club fields.
2- Ban it completely, which is what the authorities seem to want to do at the moment.

My personal opinion, is that the use of cameras on the RC models should be forbidden.. That would limit the altitude and distance those things fly. That is the only way people are going to respect the line of sight rule.
Exception could perhaps be the quad racing. They could create a federation that would make rules and educate its members.
Apart from that, cameras not allowed.. I think this would be better than banning the hobby completely.

The people that make the rules do not know the difference between normal model flying and drones and they are putting everything on the same pot, and therefore restrictions will also apply to normal model flying unfortunately. I fly normal models, and because of some idiots I probably won't be able to enjoy my hobby in the future. :(

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by Kilrah » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:23 am

jhsa wrote: Apart from that, cameras not allowed.. I think this would be better than banning the hobby completely.
Quite the contrary, that would make sure it does because you'll now have all FPV flyers against you.

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:56 am

Kilrah, unfortunately your freedom starts where mine ends..
I'm getting really p'ed off with the fact that I might not be able to fly even my smallest models in the near future because of a bunch of idiots doing a lot of s**t. They don't have respect for their fellow RC flyer. As a matter a fact they don't have respect for anyone else but their own back sides.
I am quite sure that ALL the models that were involved in near misses with REAL aircraft with REAL pilots and people inside had a camera on board. Even worse, I bet all of them were being flown through a camera.
There is another solution then. Make the strict rules only for people flying FPV. Please leave the others alone. This is a hobby nearly 100 years old, and there was never a problem like this one. Now it is endangered since people decided to put cameras on the models and start doing s**t.
I don't care if you or anyone else is against what I think, I couldn't give the slightest... just leave my hobby alone.
Also, In Europe if people kept to the legal RF power on their video system ( 25mW?) They wouldn't be able to go that faraway anyway.

Most of the people flying out there have no knowledge of the air rules, unless they have a pilot's license. As I said, if people want to share the same airspace with REAL aircraft with REAL people inside, they should go to school and take a licence like real PILOTS did.
The idiots have to be stopped one way or another, and as far as I can see, for the authorities we are all considered idiots because their laws will include normal model (or should I say normal drone :o ) flying as well.
Regulate only the FPV then, not the models without cameras. They don't cause any problems as they can't get that far anyway.

You are free to express your opinion, so am I. :)

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by Kilrah » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:40 am

jhsa wrote: I'm getting really p'ed off with the fact that I might not be able to fly even my smallest models in the near future because of a bunch of idiots doing a lot of s**t.
And I'm getting really p'd off that people like you say "just ban cameras" instead of trying to find a proper solution that works for everybody.

By saying that you're doing to others exatly the same thing you don't want to happen to you.

FPV flyers have fun flying FPV becasue it's awesome, if you don't want to do the effort of trying to integrate them and are OK to suggest just killing their their fun then they certainly won't help you keep yours.

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:55 am

As I said, they should regulate the FPV only. The normal model flying, when done properly and in the right places, does not cause any problems.
As I said, the exception should be quad racing when done properly.

Kilrah, you are also free to express your opinion. So am I. So, if you're p'ed off with me because of my opinion, I don't care as I am entitled to express mine as well.
It is just a matter of time until a drone flown by an idiot hits a plane. That near miss near Faro airport could have been the one me and my family were in. I did fly on that same flight, just another day. The authorities will do whatever it takes to keep the skies safe. If they can't control the idiots, they will ban model flying altogether.
And if they do it it won't be because the normal model flyers.
The people that will suffer with this are the ones that do the right thing, as the one that do s**t will continue to do it illegally anyway. If I can't for example fly over 50 meters I won't do it.. What about you?

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by Kilrah » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:05 am

jhsa wrote:The normal model flying, when done properly and in the right places, does not cause any problems.
Neither does FPV, and regulations are there already, if you cause an accident you'd be in trouble whether FPV or not.

People who do stupid things already aren't allowed to do them. No amount of extra regulation will change that, they're not following those that exist and won't follow any new one either.
All you can do is punish the offenders and everything's already there to do it.

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:29 am

The authorities have to do something before a disaster happens, not after..
And if what it takes is to ban model flying, they will do it. None of this was a problem before the arrival of FPV and some idiots that came with it.
They could for example allow model flying only in designated ( and approved) areas, and the people should have to be in a club and federated in the model flying federation. That means they would have an insurance and they would fly in a safe place.
Long range FPV should not he allowed in my opinion. Maximum altitude should be limited depending on the place you're in.

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by Kilrah » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:47 am

The authorities can't do anything, just like they can't make everybody respect speed limits on the road.

Even if they banned model flying completely some people, especially the problematic ones would still buy or build models and fly them.
If you have to be in a club there will still be people that fly in other places anyway.
Long range FPV is already banned pretty much everywhere, yet people still do it.
Maximum altitudes are already put in place in many locations, and there will always be people who don't respect them.

Again everything is already there, the only thing that can be done is try to educate people and detect/punish the offenders more consistently.

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by Carbo » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:08 am

Look at the bright side: There will be a lot of drone hunting jobs in the future. That´s because a lot of the lawful people will move to the dark side. So some will get paid for hunting drones legally, sounds like a lot of fun, no matter which side you´re on ;)

(May contain satire)

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:58 am

Hmm, can't afford a go-pro camera? Go hunt one :). Sounds good. :D

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Re: RE: Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by Rob Thomson » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:09 pm

Kilrah wrote:The authorities can't do anything, just like they can't make everybody respect speed limits on the road.

Even if they banned model flying completely some people, especially the problematic ones would still buy or build models and fly them.
If you have to be in a club there will still be people that fly in other places anyway.
Long range FPV is already banned pretty much evberywhere, yet people still do it.
Maximum altitudes are already put in places in many locations, and there will always be people who don't respect them.

Again everything is already there, the only thing that can be done is try to educate people and detect/punish the offenders more consistently.
Agreed.

Rules are already in place. You can ban it.. But you won't stop it.

Only solution is effective prosecution of idiots.

Silly thing is.. The vast majority these days fly mini quads. This is great.

A. You don't go high. The fun is low down.
B. You tend to only use 25mw.

This is good. Means more people will by default obey the rules.
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by ReSt » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:00 pm

jhsa wrote: They could for example allow model flying only in designated ( and approved) areas, and the people should have to be in a club and federated in the model flying federation. That means they would have an insurance and they would fly in a safe place.
João
Sorry João, I have to contradict!

I do live in a area, away from any flight zone, where there are no flying clubs you simply can join. And the ones that exist are just far enough away to not visit them. So it is not realistic to simply join a club nearby and everything is fine.
And in Germany, you already MUST have an insurance for model flying (law since 2005).

And you know as well as me, those who don't take care of the already existing rules won't do it either when you release new ones.

Reinhard

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Re: RE: Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:46 pm

ReSt wrote:
And you know as well as me, those who don't take care of the already existing rules won't do it either when you release new ones.

Reinhard
That is true. I have at least one in my club that when I asked him what he will do if we get the 100 meter law, and he said he would ignore it.
I don't think most of the people comply with having a spotter with trainer cable, fly only line of sight, and use only 25mW RF power for video transmission.. Actually I doubt someone comply with all these at the same time. :)

I think you only need a couple more reports from pilots here in Europe for the purposed law to become our law.. :(
So, unfortunately this is in the hands of the idiots that don't care about the law, about you, or about me..
Enjoy the hobby safely while you can..

João
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by bob195558 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:55 pm

Simon Dale is working to help preserve our hobby: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMKwYWlSkMY).
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by Carbo » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:20 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl-bhsTa5rs

Another one got shocked about this

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