FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Bruneaux » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:21 pm

I'm with Mike B. We have been flying gliders safely for decades and it seems that the FAA ignored us.

400 ft is not even a good launch altitude, let alone thermaling room.

Now the glider clubs will have to make a decision to either ignore the 400ft rule or disband the club.

I also doubt that the turbine and giant scale people will be very happy either. A lot of them will not be able to fly at all unless they break the 'rule'.

I just hope that the AMA gets the ruling dismissed by a Judge that has a clue. We are not the criminals. We have AMA rules and insurance. The criminals (and terrorists) don't care and will not register.

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:24 pm

I thought 400ft was near airfields and airports? Then yes, I agree with it..

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by MikeB » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:01 pm

What the FAA have done is when you register you "sign up" to not fly above 400 feet as part of the registration where you agree to follow the "safety guidance". See the end of Bob's post above.

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by bob195558 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:02 pm

The 400 ft is for everything/everywhere and seem to be extra restrictive as planes fly a lot higher anyways.
No RC flying is allowed with in 5 miles of an airports with a control tower.
Many RC clubs, are flying at airports, But now will not be able to.
There has been no aircraft taken down by RC Hobbyist.
So why so restrictive ?
I'm OK with Safety, But this is restrictive with out justification. :x :geek:

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:57 am

Yep, not near an airport 400ft makes no sense.

If your club flies at an airfield it is actually safer because pilots know you are there and also normally you are always in contact with the controllers. A few years ago my club used to fly at the local airfield. We had a radio and always landed and got out of the way when there was traffic. The only little incident was a pilot that came in to land after the airfield was already closed in the evening. He shouldn't be flying after the official sunset anyway.. But we saw him coming and got out of the way.. he was at fault because he didn't fly vertical of the airfield before proceeding to land..

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by gohsthb » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:17 am

I don't have an altimeter in my aircraft. It looks like I'm below 400ft. Also that 400 feet is above ground level anyway, or you would only be able to fly near oceans. :)-

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:31 am

We can only thank the idiots that go FPV at thousands of feet and post the videos on youtube.

I do understand our hobby and the ones that do not intend to put others in danger. But I also understand the people that fly up there and Don't want to meet a remote controlled model on their way. there are aready enough bird strikes. Model strikes are not needed.
This time the aviation authorities want to avoid accidents before they happen and I don't find nothing wrong with it.
The problem is that they might not know enough about our hobby.
But they will have to do something about it before someone dies, not after as usual. And we can pray that there is no accident between a model and an aircraft. That would mean a complete ban..

Obviously we don't want this to happen. Of course only the registered people will suffer as the idiots won't register because they know they are doing s**t. So maybe it's up to us to put them in their place and call the police when they are doing s***.
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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by SR71 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:32 pm

I will fly below 400 feet
I will fly within visual line of sight
I will be aware of FAA airspace requirements: http://www.faa.gov/go/uastfr
I will not fly directly over people
I will not fly over stadiums and sports events
I will not fly near emergency response efforts such as fires
I will not fly near aircraft, especially near airports
I will not fly under the influence
Just wondering if a "good guy" should adhere... (supposing that one has the choice).
Whilst the points #2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 are easily achieved (at least if one so decides), the #1 requires an altimeter, the #3 requires one to be constantly informed (maybe is there an app that warns about that restrictions ?).

Furthemore, we all know that "Ignorantia legis non excusat", so the fact that one doesn't have an altimeter is irrelevant

Since when I have a Taranis with OpenTX (Aug 2013), I bought/built a few alti/vario. So, I have such devices installed everywhere on my planes (gliders with wingspan <= 3.3 m) and can confirm that 400 ft is the altitude easily reached after few seconds of engine run.
Here in Italy the restriction are 70m/150m, so quite unconvenient for RC gliders (though it seems that on past December there was some noteworthy change to the regulation).

Hironically, who is not impacted at all (other than evil people), are just the multicopters that, if flown in line of sight, hardly can go over the 400 ft AGL...

Edit for clarity.

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Rob Thomson » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:41 pm

For the UK readers....

The current state of play is well summed up in this CAA summary.

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/1108.pdf

For the UK the exemptions applied allow height up to 1000ft on condition that you can see the model at all times.
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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Bruneaux » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:54 pm

The 1000ft ceiling is much more realistic. Unless within 5 miles of an airport (controlled).

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:00 pm

Wow, that document is more than fair I believe, well done. Most of the rules were already normal RC rules. At least I have learnt them when I first got into a club.. These got lost when people stopped getting into clubs as the equipment got easier to get and also cheaper so everyone can buy it.. before we had to be in a club (at least where I come from), so we had insurance, and got to learn the hobby safety rules properly.
Also, as far as I know 1000ft is more than enough even for big gliders..
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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:03 pm

Bruneaux wrote:The 1000ft ceiling is much more realistic. Unless within 5 miles of an airport (controlled).

Bruneaux
Yes, and that keeps everybody safe.. or it should. Let's see what the idiots do.. :o
My bet is that they will continue to do what they've always done and then the laws will go harder on everyone.. It's needed that the people that keep to the laws call the police on the idiots.. Something has to be done or one day no one will be able to fly models anymore :(

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Bruneaux » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:56 pm

As far as un-powered gliders: I think that I'll just have to have rather generous eye. Those clouds look about 400 ft. high, right? I'll stay under that.

Vario, sure\, I have one, but it's not hooked up to an altimeter.
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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by bob195558 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:59 pm

The US FAA under there own regulation do not have the authority to make laws and/or regulations for models.
US FAA is registering the law abiding RC Hobbyist and not the RC models and not the potential problem persons
and what they may do with models. (Government is making things a lot worse!).
So under there threats of jail time and large monetary penalties, are mandating RC Hobbyist to register and promise to only fly under there regulations.
I am for Safety, But, I am not for tyranny that is designed to discourages our RC Hobby.

I have registered, and what they have at this time is OK for me, but is not for a lot of other law abiding RC Hobbyist which is tyranny on our RC Hobby and the FAA inflicted unlawful and unwanted regulations on us US law abiding RC Hobbyist.

If you understand how the US Constitution is made to work properly, you would know that the federal government is very limited
to what they can make into legal law. They are not following the US Constitution properly.

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Bruneaux » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:10 pm

The AMA has suggested waiting until the last moment. That is good advice because if the numbers of people that register are HUGE the the FAA will declare a HUGE victory.

I believe the AMA has something in the works. I think an appeal to the supreme court because there is a law that says the FAA can't do what they are trying to do.

I will not be registering anything until I absolutely have to. If I don't have a model in the air then I don't have to register it. And it is not the season for gliders for several months.

And those cloud still look to be about 400ft . . . . .

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by bob195558 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:43 pm

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Rob Thomson » Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:22 pm

I personally believe that the FAA are simply following the rules of the UK caa.

Note. In the UK it is the exemption that allows you to fly to 1000ft. The 'law' is 400 ft.

What this means is the UK caa can pull rights to fly at 1000 ft any time they want - without the legal systems coming into play.

I suspect that the FAA are simply putting in a blanket height limit - then will issue exemptions once they have stamped their authority!

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by bob195558 » Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:29 pm

Being an America, we are not to follow other county's restrictive laws that do not have our US Constitution.
The Original US Constitution is what keeps freedom in the world.
Freedom is under attack in the world today and is being trampled down.

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FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Daedalus66 » Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:17 pm

Political rhetoric doesn't help. The issue that concerns all of us is how governments can strike a balance between legitimate demands from the public to do something about the hazards of drones for people and aircraft and the legitimate desire of modelers to fly in a responsible manner. I happen to think the rules, especially on altitude, are too restrictive, but I'm not naive enough to think that we will again enjoy virtual freedom to fly as high as we like. We used to be a small group who posed little risk; now drones are everywhere, making a nuisance of themselves -- or worse -- and very much in the public eye. It's not about freedom versus tyranny but finding a reasonable way to deal with a problem while limiting the rest of us as little as possible. It's a genuinely difficult challenge that deserves rational discussion.


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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by MikeB » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:18 am

I see the MACI in Ireland have obtained temporary exemption from their members needing to register with the IAA.

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Bruneaux » Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:38 pm

MikeB wrote:I see the MACI in Ireland have obtained temporary exemption from their members needing to register with the IAA.

Mike.
Mike,

I can only hope the the AMA can get an exemption from the FAA for AMA members. But I fear that the all of the parks and open places will be put on the 'ban' list because of the move from the FAA. The FAA won't ban them, but townspeople will when the hear about the FAA rules. The AMA can't save those places and those park flyers.

Some people (non-cub members) fly off the pavement at a local soccer field and I think they will be kicked out because of it. They all have AMA cards and are very responsible people. I fly there occasionally with my foamies. I also think that the local police will stop me from flying off of a road that I use, too. No people or buildings, I think it is C2 (commercial zone) that failed, but the police will have too much pressure to enforce the 'FAA rules'.

So I am mostly grounded. I used to slope soar at a local park but the rules will prevent me from flying there (flying over people) and I have to drive over an hour to get to the sod farm where we fly sailplanes. Hope we don't get kicked out, but the limit of 400 ft will keep me grounded unless we agree to a blind eye to the rules. I have no propellers on my sailplanes, so the fun of the hobby is good flying and catching a monster thermal.

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Bruneaux » Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:59 am

NOTICE! From AMA headquaters

RE: Flying OVER 400 ft and the FAA rules and website


From the AMA Web site:

Q: Am I permitted to fly above 400 feet? What if I had to check a box saying otherwise on the federal registration website?
A: Yes. AMA members who abide by the AMA Safety Code, which permits flights above 400 feet under appropriate circumstances, and are protected by the Special Rule for Model Aircraft under the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act. Checking the box on the federal registration webpage signifies an understanding of the 400 foot guideline. This is an important safety principle that all UAS operators need to be aware of, and is the same guideline established in AC 91-57 published in 1981. However, the placement of this guideline on the FAA website is intended as an educational piece and more specifically intended for those operating outside of AMA’s safey program. We have been in discussions with the FAA about this point and the agency has indicted that it will be updating its website in the next week to make clear that this altitude guideline is not intended to supplant the guidance and safety procedures established in AMA’s safety program.

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by bob195558 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:42 am

Dose this mean for the RC Hobbyist that are not registered with AMA, will be held to the 400 feet limit ? :?:

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Bruneaux » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:58 pm

That is what I get out of it.

However, the placement of this guideline on the FAA website is intended as an educational piece and more specifically intended for those operating outside of AMA’s safety program.

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by bob195558 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:41 pm

Then they seem to be saying if you are registered with the AMA then nothing has changed and so then the FFA toward the AMA,
it is just an educational safety statement, no new restrictions applied to AMA at all ? :?:

The way the FFA presented there new Registration rules,
violators will suffer large financial fines (regulation fines) and imprisonment.

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Bruneaux » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:13 pm

Check in with the AMA's website and the comments.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutama/gov.aspx

As always, the 99.9% of people will not get in trouble, even if they totally ignore it all. But when some does something donkey stupid and hits something or someone then I bet the FAA will smack them with the $25k fine (like when a muli-rotor hit an airliner and damaged it). Especially if they didn't register.

Just don't be that person. Register, get that AMA card and fly according to the AMA rules.

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Re: RE: Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:30 pm

Bruneaux wrote:
Just don't be that person. Register, get that AMA card and fly according to the AMA rules.
So true. ;)

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Re: RE: Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Bruneaux » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:39 pm

jhsa wrote:
Bruneaux wrote:
Just don't be that person. Register, get that AMA card and fly according to the AMA rules.
So true. ;)

João
I was pretty upset with the FAA until I read the info from the AMA. Being limited to 400ft is not acceptable with non-powered sailplanes.

I also must comment about the wording of things,though. The AMA is referring to FAA's requirement to register as "guidelines" and they never call them 'rules' or 'laws'.

Ok, I can go with "guidelines".

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by ShowMaster » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:48 am

Will the AMA pay the $27K fine for members the FAA can now impose for certain violations, altitude being one of them?
The airport almost shut down our field Thursday and indicated that if the 400ft rule is not adhered to, they may! The fields been there 50 years!
I'm going with FAA trumps AMA and we all suffer. AMA membership is falling due to many flyers not wanting to pay the dues, and they went up for 2016. If every Rc flyer would join, the AMA would have some real power. They are asking for donations to their legal fund. I'll bet few have donated member or not!
I fear they are powerless, or are becoming that way.

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:17 am

If you fly near an airport it is normal the they apply the 400ft limit, and I do understand why they worry so much about the model flying over that altitude. Many people that are in the hobby have no idea of what is being up there and how dangerous it could be an aircraft meeting a model. Just look what bird strikes do to airplanes. The good thing is that now we have telemetry so we can control the altitude better and avoid upsetting the authorities as well as putting human lives in danger.
I like to fly low as I do like to see my model and not just a little point on the sky.. :mrgreen:

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