FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015 (FAA Registrations are Voided)

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bob195558
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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by bob195558 » Mon May 02, 2016 9:00 pm

jhsa wrote:So, according to your thinking the authorities should let a drone bring an aircraft down and kill people before they do something about it ?
I am not advocating RC Model Flying in Restrictive Air Space.
There are already Laws / Regulation that prevent the RC Model Flying in Restrictive Air Space.
So why would you want to make these Laws / Regulations over and over again.
Will it change anything to making the same Laws / Regulations over and over again ?
The pattern of Law Makers and Regulation Makers is over time, will restrict all RC Model Flying with Registration, Taxation (results is much higher cost to fly) and Ruthless Regulations to discourage all RC Model Flying all together as the end results.
So what is the solution ? what should be done ?
I hope Law Makers and Regulation Makers will not make Ruthless Regulations to restrict all RC Model Flying.
Unless there is Push-back by RC Model Flying hobbyist we will have to stop our loved RC Model Flying hobby.
jhsa wrote:I think model flying should go back to what it was a few years ago. People must be in a club, with insurance,
I think where high populated areas are, there maybe a real need to have a more organized structure for RC Model Flying, but when there is a very low populated area, then there is no need for a club (what are you going have, a club with one member in it) and mandated insurance (do not need insurance to protect you from your self) when flying on the family farm of several hundred acres.

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Mon May 02, 2016 10:27 pm

bob195558 wrote: So what is the solution ? what should be done ?
I described above what should be done in my opinion.. Exactly the same as we did few years ago before everybody had access to RC satuff.. Now people buy and operate this RC stuff without having the slightest clue of what they are doing..
So, yes, clubs with education like we had before. Yes, everyone should do an exam (the club should provide it for free) to prove they can handle a model. Then we would receive our wings and honor them..

The way it is today IS A BIG MESS. And that is not good.. We all knew, and it was discussed before. We all agreed long ago that the way people are behaving would get the attention of the media and the politicians that know nothing about the hobby, and don't really care about it.. They will grab all they can so they can climb to the top.. We all knew that..

I think where high populated areas are, there maybe a real need to have a more organized structure for RC Model Flying, but when there is a very low populated area, then there is no need for a club (what are you going have, a club with one member in it) and mandated insurance (do not need insurance to protect you from your self) when flying on the family farm of several hundred acres.

Bob B.
If you fly inside your property, it is your responsibility. If you injure yourself or your children, it is your problem and you will learn the safety rules the hard way.. Not long ago I have read somewhere that someone hit a child in the eyes with the propeller of his multirotor.. This was in a public park I think..

It would be nice if people learnt how to handle the models the easy way, without injuries and without pain.. So yes, a club is a must in my opinion..

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Tue May 03, 2016 6:56 pm

No comments on some of the clips. They speak for themselves, and show the reason we won't be able to fly models anymore in the future..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d5Co-6KtLI

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Tue May 03, 2016 8:31 pm

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by bob195558 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:57 pm

Here is from RCGroup.com an article titled: Who Has Been Fined by the FAA?
RCGroups user Jason Koebler has penned another story for Motherboard.com that goes deeper into the FAA/FPV/Drone debacle.
(http://motherboard.vice.com/read/faa-drone-fines)
The real trick here is to figure out what is real. It's hard to know what is suggested vs. what is law.
Then there is the whole question about what appears to be overreach of the FAA and our RC models.
It's enough to make the mind wobble!
I wanted to highlight some main points from Jason's most recent article about who has really been fined by the FAA and for how much.
I think you will find it interesting!
Jason's Story (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthre ... June9%2016).
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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by bob195558 » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:51 am

Just received an e-mail from Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and here it is:

FAA logo
The Department of Transportation (DOT) and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) announced the final Small UAS Rule this morning.
The press release is available at: https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases ... wsId=20515.

Please note that all provisions of the Rule, including all pilot requirements and operating rules, will be effective in August 2016, 60 days after the rule is published in the Federal Register.

Details about the rule are available on the FAA’s UAS website (http://www.faa.gov/uas/).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Press Release – DOT and FAA Finalize Rules for Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems

For Immediate Release

June 21, 2016
Contact: Les Dorr or Alison Duquette
Phone: 202-267-3883
Regulations will create new opportunities for business and government to use drones

WASHINGTON – Today, the Department of Transportation’s Federal Aviation Administration has finalized the first operational rules (PDF)(http://www.faa.gov/uas/media/Part_107_Summary.pdf) for routine commercial use of small unmanned aircraft systems (UAS or “drones”), opening pathways towards fully integrating UAS into the nation’s airspace. These new regulations work to harness new innovations safely, to spur job growth, advance critical scientific research and save lives.

“We are part of a new era in aviation, and the potential for unmanned aircraft will make it safer and easier to do certain jobs, gather information, and deploy disaster relief,” said U.S. Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx. “We look forward to working with the aviation community to support innovation, while maintaining our standards as the safest and most complex airspace in the world.”

According to industry estimates, the rule could generate more than $82 billion for the U.S. economy and create more than 100,000 new jobs over the next 10 years.

The new rule, which takes effect in late August, offers safety regulations for unmanned aircraft drones weighing less than 55 pounds that are conducting non-hobbyist operations.

The rule’s provisions are designed to minimize risks to other aircraft and people and property on the ground. The regulations require pilots to keep an unmanned aircraft within visual line of sight. Operations are allowed during daylight and during twilight if the drone has anti-collision lights. The new regulations also address height and speed restrictions and other operational limits, such as prohibiting flights over unprotected people on the ground who aren’t directly participating in the UAS operation.

The FAA is offering a process to waive some restrictions if an operator proves the proposed flight will be conducted safely under a waiver. The FAA will make an online portal available to apply for these waivers in the months ahead.

“With this new rule, we are taking a careful and deliberate approach that balances the need to deploy this new technology with the FAA’s mission to protect public safety,” said FAA Administrator Michael Huerta. “But this is just our first step. We’re already working on additional rules that will expand the range of operations.”

Under the final rule, the person actually flying a drone must be at least 16 years old and have a remote pilot certificate with a small UAS rating, or be directly supervised by someone with such a certificate. To qualify for a remote pilot certificate, an individual must either pass an initial aeronautical knowledge test at an FAA-approved knowledge testing center or have an existing non-student Part 61 pilot certificate. If qualifying under the latter provision, a pilot must have completed a flight review in the previous 24 months and must take a UAS online training course provided by the FAA. The TSA will conduct a security background check of all remote pilot applications prior to issuance of a certificate.

Operators are responsible for ensuring a drone is safe before flying, but the FAA is not requiring small UAS to comply with current agency airworthiness standards or aircraft certification. Instead, the remote pilot will simply have to perform a preflight visual and operational check of the small UAS to ensure that safety-pertinent systems are functioning property. This includes checking the communications link between the control station and the UAS.

Although the new rule does not specifically deal with privacy issues in the use of drones, and the FAA does not regulate how UAS gather data on people or property, the FAA is acting to address privacy considerations in this area. The FAA strongly encourages all UAS pilots to check local and state laws before gathering information through remote sensing technology or photography.

As part of a privacy education campaign, the agency will provide all drone users with recommended privacy guidelines as part of the UAS registration process and through the FAA’s B4UFly mobile app. The FAA also will educate all commercial drone pilots on privacy during their pilot certification process; and will issue new guidance to local and state governments on drone privacy issues. The FAA’s effort builds on the privacy “best practices” (PDF)(https://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/pub ... lity_0.pdf) the National Telecommunications and Information Administration published last month as the result of a year-long outreach initiative with privacy advocates and industry.

Part 107 will not apply to model aircraft. Model aircraft operators must continue to satisfy all the criteria specified in Section 336 of Public Law 112-95 (PDF)(https://www.congress.gov/112/plaws/publ ... publ95.pdf) (which will now be codified in Part 101), including the stipulation they be operated only for hobby or recreational purposes.

Part 107 Rule (PDF)(http://www.faa.gov/uas/media/RIN_2120-A ... Signed.pdf)
Summary of Part 107 Rule (PDF)(http://www.faa.gov/uas/media/Part_107_Summary.pdf)
FAA Fact Sheet(http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/new ... wsId=20516)

Visit our website for more information on the FAA and UAS.(http://www.faa.gov/uas/)
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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:07 am

Having had a quick look, it looks like they are putting FPV and model aircraft in different categories, and I think that is good.
We, normal model flyers, don't have to pay for the c**p some idiots do..

Oh, and they still don't mention the use of forbidden frequencies and power.. :)

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by bob195558 » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:21 pm

FAA News
Click on these pictures to be able to view (make larger) them:
FAA NEWS_1.jpg
FAA News Page 1
FAA NEWS_2.jpg
FAA News Page 2
FAA NEWS_3.jpg
FAA News Page 3
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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by bob195558 » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:49 pm

A commentary about the New Zealand CAA's new drone rules.
View here: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dHF6Sq3PYk).
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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:35 am

I agree with most of it. If we want to be real pilots, then let's be real pilots and follow the same safety rules real pilots also do.
We are lucky that they aren't still asking for radio communications inside controlled airspace. but i guess that will come :)

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by bob195558 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:08 pm

xjet commentary: John Taylor vs FAA: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF941Yc3zLg).

Bob B.
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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by bob195558 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:50 pm

Commentary by Bruce at xjet:
"Quick Vlog #5: People die, I may go to jail, and why DJI could own the drone market"
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CaOS1wTDAs).

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:32 am

I stopped watching the video when he said that the recreation drone flyers should have the same rights to use the airspace as the real aircraft with real pilots. WHAT A BUNCH OF RUBBISH. Obviously he doesn't sit his back side on a real aircraft at all, because if he did do some air travel he wouldn't think like that at all.

If he wants the same rights, he has to go to take a pilots license like all pilots do and learn the rules, install a transponder on his models so they can be tracked and guided by air traffic control (just like real aircraft), and have radio communications capability with air traffic control. He also would have to have his drones issued an airworthiness certificate, just like all aircraft have.. This is what it takes to be able to share the airspace with others safely.
Then he can fly safely where all the other aircraft fly. This is the minimum it takes to fly safely. Without this, airspace would be a complete caos. Obviously Bruce knows NOTHING about aviation.

This is one of the reasons I stopped watching his channels.
The other reason is that he doesn't do model reviews anymore, he does drone related stuff reviews. No more credibility as far as radio control products reviews are concerned. They are practically inexistent.

Another reason is doing radio reviews being completely biased and impartial.. Like saying that the 9XR-PRO was c**p even before opening it and using it.. He never did a decent review about the radio. he said he would do a more detailed part 2 but never did. No credibility at all as far as I'm concerned..

That is my personal opinion.

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by bob195558 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:53 am

Hi João,
I think Bruce was being facetious, to bring attention to how unelected regulators make up new laws which is to kill (outlaw) our RC flying hobby.
So I believe when he said "recreation drone flyers should have the same rights to use the airspace as the real aircraft with real pilots" Bruce was not advocating this, but was using it to say there are now a lot more people registered as RC flying hobbyist then there are real aircraft pilots and so we, RC flying hobbyist, should push-back against these unelected regulators who are not RC flying hobbyist.
Many of these unelected regulators (we have no representation for our hobby) make up stupid regulations that hurt our hobby.
Most of these unelected regulators see them selves to be smarter an anybody else.
They do not care if they hurt (Kill) our RC flying hobby.
They only think it is there job to make restrictive regulations (restrictive laws).
They like playing god over all the people and telling us what we can not do.
I would like if you would push back against these unelected restrictive regulators who are happy to kill our RC flying hobby.
These unelected restrictive regulators do not need people giving them more bullets to create more unelected restrictive regulations.
I like our hobby and hope these unelected restrictive regulators do not kill our hobby.

Bob B.
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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:12 am

It's not only the legislators. The legislators were brought to attention to this problem by real pilots that complained about people doing bad things like flying their drones inside airport perimeters and crossing the path of planes landing and taking off. Of course, the legislators know nothing about the hobby, but let me tell you, there are many people flying drones/models that know even less about the hobby than the legislators.
We live in a world were people want to do whatever they like wherever they like, and most don't care if they can harm others or not.
We want freedom do do what we like, and once we achieved that level of freedom, we want more and more. Stuff has to he regulated so it works, otherwise it will be a complete anarchy..

I do believe that Bruce meant what he said.
One more thing, please do not put drones and model flying in the same box. Drones ARE NOT models.
If only the drones were being regulated I wouldn't care about this problem, as I don't fly them. This wouldn't be my fight then.
But the problem, due to ignorance, as you say, is that for the law makers drones and models are the same.

Apparently here in Germany, after our model flying federation talked a lot with the politicians, it seems that they finally understood the difference and regulated accordingly. So, for model flying (on registered a club's field) all stays practically the same. Restrictions like altitude and distance apply to people flying in parks or other public places. So everybody can enjoy their hobby. Long distance FPV is not allowed as far as I understand, and I fully agree with it. For that you need to know much more than just flying a drone. You need to know how to behave in the airspace, you need your aircraft to be tracked so air traffic control can warn you and others about possible collisions, and obviously you need a 2 way radio communication system to speak to the controller..
Otherwise you CANNOT share the same airspace as real aircraft in the same way they do. It takes much more than most of us think to be a pilot. That is one of the reasons a pilot's license is normally very expensive. You need a lot of studying.

Again DRONES ARE NOT MODELS, so please people stop putting them in the same bag.
I bet most of us don't even know what the definition of drone is. The media certainly doesn't. :)

I have read news like " An Ultralight aircraft has crashed today killing all of its 200 passengers and crew." This is just an example.
Many reporters have no idea what they are writing about when they write about aviation. :(

João


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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Kilrah » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:55 am

jhsa wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:12 am
Again DRONES ARE NOT MODELS
Everytime I read that it drives me crazy. Yes they are the same, both are light unmanned aircraft. Autonomous or navigation-capable models either through instrumentation or remote video just have extended capabilities - which are what you want to regulate.
But you don't have to make separate categories, since regulating these capabilities doesn't impact regular LOS models as they don't have them anyway.

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:53 am

Nope, and I will drive you crazy again. :)
DRONES ARE NOT MODELS. ;) :D

The term Drone started being used by the military as far as I know on their long distance remote controlled vehicles.
A vehicle that is flown through a video feed and/or autonomous is a DRONE.

A radio controlled model aircraft can have a camera inside but IS NOT flown by a video feed. The person flying it (NOT necessarily a pilot unless he/she has a pilot's license), has the model in DIRECT line of sight AT ALL TIMES, not through a video link.
That is a model aircraft.

No they should NOT be regulated under the same rules as a "Drone" can fly out of the person's line of sight in distance and altitude, while a "Model Aircraft" cannot and is confined to the airspace where the person flying it is standing.

For example, take the racing thing.

There is drone racing, and model aircraft racing which are two completely different things.

Ahh, and neither Drone flyers and model aircraft flyers are pilots. So, please DO NOT use the same airspace that REAL pilots and aircraft do..

I speak as a Model Aircraft flyer and as a former Real Aircraft Pilot, so I think I do know what I'm talking about.

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:02 am

Challenge:
Find a Drone in the picture below

Image

Solution:
There isn't any "Drone" in the picture. :) ;)

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Kilrah » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:59 am

jhsa wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:53 am
A radio controlled model aircraft can have a camera inside but IS NOT flown by a video feed. The person flying it (NOT necessarily a pilot unless he/she has a pilot's license), has the model in DIRECT line of sight AT ALL TIMES, not through a video link.
That is a model aircraft.

No they should NOT be regulated under the same rules as a "Drone" can fly out of the person's line of sight in distance and altitude, while a "Model Aircraft" cannot and is confined to the airspace where the person flying it is standing.
So precisely what matters is not the aircraft's capabilities, but the use you make of it.

Flying a "drone" within the same limits and conditions than a "model" doesn't do any more harm than flying said model.
Flying a "model" beyond that is impossible, easy.
Flying a model that's capable of it beyond that requires additional training, authorization or licensing for the pilot, easy too.
jhsa wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:02 am
There isn't any "Drone" in the picture. :) ;)
And I don't have any "drones" either, only model aircraft with extended capabilities that must be used respectfully.

Nobody in the field wants them called "drones", but it's not like we have choice since that's what the general public and media insist on doing.

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:09 pm

Sorry, but if your aircraft have FPV gear, the moment you use that equipment you make it a Drone. If you fly it line of sight only, then it is not a drone.

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Kilrah
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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Kilrah » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:11 pm

And these when flown as a "drone" since you too insist in using that stupid word within the same boundaries as your non-FPV models do absolutely no extra harm.

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Re: RE: Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:21 pm


Kilrah wrote:.

Flying a "drone" within the same limits and conditions than a "model" doesn't do any more harm than flying said model.
Flying a "model" beyond that is impossible, easy.
Flying a model that's capable of it beyond that requires additional training, authorization or licensing for the pilot, easy too.
Precisely. The model becomes a Drone the second you use those extended capabilities as you fall them. And it should then be regulated as such.
An aircraft used as model aircraft ONLY has its own rules.
Some rules apply to both, like, do not fly over people and property. Do not fly above a certain altitude near airports or airfields, etc.
For aircraft used as Drones, there are, or should be, additional rules, like maximum altitude, maximum distance from the pilot, etc.
In my opinion, high altitude and long distance FPV should not be allowed.
Drone racing is fine as long as confined to a closed racing track/field

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Re: RE: Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:26 pm

Kilrah wrote:And these when flown as a "drone" since you too insist in using that stupid word within the same boundaries as your non-FPV models do absolutely no extra harm.
Nope, if you fly your DRONE in the same area and space as the model aircraft, applying the same rules, there is no problem at all.. Just don't forget your spotter and trainer setup as required :)
Ahh, a drone flown at the field might still have a lower altitude allowance than a model aircraft flown LOS. :)

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Re: RE: Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Kilrah » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:12 am

jhsa wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:26 pm
Ahh, a drone flown at the field might still have a lower altitude allowance than a model aircraft flown LOS. :)
But there would be no valid reason to apply such a restriction.

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:44 am

No, there is no reason, but only if with a spotter, which is one of requirements for it to be legal anyway. But my guess is that very few use spotters.
When flying line of sight, you see an airplane approaching and get out of the way. If you have a screen stuck to your eyes, you don't have the same perception as someone on the ground looking up.

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Kilrah » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:45 am

jhsa wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:44 am
No, there is no reason, but only if with a spotter, which is one of requirements for it to be legal anyway. But my guess is that very few use spotters.
Indeed, becasue that is a pointless requirement that was made by someone who had no clue and that should really just be dropped.
jhsa wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:44 am
When flying line of sight, you see an airplane approaching and get out of the way. If you have a screen stuck to your eyes, you don't have the same perception as someone on the ground looking up.
Indeed, it's a lot better. The most common mid-air collision scenario you have with conventionally flown models where you get the depth perception wrong typically doesn't happen in FPV :)

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:16 am

No, and please don't twist my words :) . With FPV you don't even see them coming, that is what I meant.
If you are on the ground looking up, you see the other aircraft coming, their trajectory, and can easily move your model out of the way, even if you don't have the perception of altitude.

You also don't have depth perception while FPVing, unless you use a 3D video system, which I believe most do not..

With FPV you don't have the perception of distance,you don't have the perception of the other aircraft's heading, and also you don't have the perception of altitude. And please don't even tell me that you can see better if you are using an headtracker, because you can't. In the air, and I know be self experience, things can go very wrong very quickly. and objects can move very fast in relation to other objects. Normally when another object enter your field of view it might be already too late.
If you normally fly (real aircraft), you should know very well what I'm talking about. When you are in the air, it is very difficult to find and see other objects flying in the same airspace, while if you are on the ground it is fairly easy to find several objects flying. That is the perception I am talking about.. And that is why I said that the rule doesn't make sense IF YOU HAVE A SPOTTER, because he/she has that perception and could take action by releasing the trainer switch and move your drone out of the way of another aircraft, avoiding a possible dangerous situation...

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by Rob Thomson » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:02 am

I have to disagree with you.

Your view point is typical of the view held by those who do not fly fpv. Unfortunately it is flawed with lack of fpv experience.

Regarding depth perspective.

With fpv you have no more and no less than with a normal aircraft.

To understand this you need to realise that depth perception is only something that occurs when close to the ground. If you are in a full size aircraft.. And gain altitude.. The world flattens. Why? Because depth perception is only effective at shorter distance.

You will also find that a large amount of depth perception is actually based around an pre understanding of the size of other objects. So.. You know that a plain is of x size therefore you can extrapolate out roughly how far away it is. This has been found as a source of issue many times in near misses. Pilots have assumed that what they are looking at is a certain size.. But get it horribly wrong.

Now.. Let me ask you one more very key question on depth perception.

What happens when you have only one functional eye? Does that mean you have no depth perception and should not be allowed a private pilots license? Or how about.. A driving licence?

I have about 10% vision in one eye. Yet I can catch balls. Drive. Fly.. Anything. But apparently as two eyes are needed for depth perception I should theoretically not be able to see how far things are away? Why do I have no problem with any of this and can hold my own in accurately determining how far away objects are?

Because depth perception is not as depended on two eyes functioning as one might think.


Now.. What I can tell you when flying fpv. You always always find the spotter telling you carefull you will hit something. Yet the fpv flyer can see full well that you will not hit it. Why? The fpv flyer is in a better position go judge position and direction of flight as his eyes and trajectory stimulations are all in the airframe he is flying. The spotter on the ground is not able to achieve this level of accuracy as they are well out of effective ability to rely on their own depth perception.

Just my 2p. :)

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:18 am

Rob Thomson wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:02 am
I have to disagree with you.

Your view point is typical of the view held by those who do not fly fpv. Unfortunately it is flawed with lack of fpv experience.
Rob,negative :) My view point is typical of the view held by those who sit their back side on a real flying machine :)
I would like to do FPV as well some day (Too expensive for me), but I would stay low and would not fly in places where real aircraft fly. That is the difference between good FPV and bad FPV. Unfortunately because of the guys that do not understand this and do not have respect for the lives of the people flying up there (you see that every day on youtube), FPV needs to be regulated, and the people that do not stick with those rules should be heavily punished. This is NOT A VIDEO GAME. There are real people flying up there. Of course rules do have to be fair.
Regarding depth perspective.

With fpv you have no more and no less than with a normal aircraft.

To understand this you need to realise that depth perception is only something that occurs when close to the ground. If you are in a full size aircraft.. And gain altitude.. The world flattens. Why? Because depth perception is only effective at shorter distance.

You will also find that a large amount of depth perception is actually based around an pre understanding of the size of other objects. So.. You know that a plain is of x size therefore you can extrapolate out roughly how far away it is. This has been found as a source of issue many times in near misses. Pilots have assumed that what they are looking at is a certain size.. But get it horribly wrong.
Rob, you are absolutely right, and let me tell you, you agree 100% with me then. Please read my post above.
I said exactly that pilots or FPV'ers do not have depth perception when in the same airspace as other aircraft.
That is why pilots need to be in contact with air traffic control ( have a radio on board), have a transponder on the aircraft so it sends its position to the ATC (Air Traffic Control), and have a pilot's licence, which means you are certified to use the airspace and know how to use it (Know the rules of the air).
This is what it takes to deal with the lack of depth perception up there.

So if you as an FPVer want to use the same airspace, you will have to do it under the same rules for it to be safe. You will have to let the other aircraft know what is your position at any time of your flight. You will have to be able to listen and to contact the controllers of the airspace you're flying in.

Now.. Let me ask you one more very key question on depth perception.

What happens when you have only one functional eye? Does that mean you have no depth perception and should not be allowed a private pilots license? Or how about.. A driving licence?

I have about 10% vision in one eye. Yet I can catch balls. Drive. Fly.. Anything. But apparently as two eyes are needed for depth perception I should theoretically not be able to see how far things are away? Why do I have no problem with any of this and can hold my own in accurately determining how far away objects are?

Because depth perception is not as depended on two eyes functioning as one might think.
My answer is the same as above. You have help from ATC to keep you out of the other aircraft's way and vice-versa, you have radio on the aircraft.
And you will have a pilot's license if your medical disability does allow you to be able to fly an aircraft safely..

Now.. What I can tell you when flying fpv. You always always find the spotter telling you carefull you will hit something. Yet the fpv flyer can see full well that you will not hit it. Why? The fpv flyer is in a better position go judge position and direction of flight as his eyes and trajectory stimulations are all in the airframe he is flying.


Rob, now you are just contradicting what you said above. You just said that when someone is up there, a pilot for example, does not a very good depth perception, and now you say that when flying FPV you can see very well what you will hit or not hit? Are you saying that when you do FPV you have a better perception of what is around you than a real pilot on a real aircraft that has 3D perception? ;) :)
We just agreed above that depth perception is a big problem when up there :)
If that was the case, real pilots would all be flying with goggles by now :mrgreen:

Well, let me tell you something, if something is coming at you up there, whether you are in a real aircraft or doing FPV, you will probably only see it when it is already too late. Again, that is the reason we have ATC, and radio communications with them.. To avoid collisions. And even like that, sometimes they still happen unfortunately.


The spotter on the ground is not able to achieve this level of accuracy as they are well out of effective ability to rely on their own depth perception.
You see, you have just agreed with me again :)

I also said on my post above that despite the spotter's lack of altitude perception due to the lack of depth perception, he/she can see better what is coming at you, and in case of doubt about the altitude you should move out of its path IMMEDIATELY anyway. Of course we are talking about smaller manned aircraft here. You would know if a jumbo Jet is at your altitude. And if that happened you wouldn't have time to react. That is why you need air traffic control to keep you out of its way, or the other out of your way (this sounds good, doesn't it) :mrgreen:

A spotter on the ground has a better view of the airspace than anyone else viewing it from up there, you believe it or not.

Resuming, you want to FPV where the other aircraft fly? Sure, make sure your aircraft and yourself are under the same rules, and have the same avoidance equipment as all the other aircraft.. :)
Otherwise, stay low, and away from airfields and airports.. :)

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Re: FAA Unmanned Aircraft Systems Registration 2015

Post by jhsa » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:42 am

Something else on depth perception, in this case altitude perception, when you are in the air. This one happened to me over France while on a flight from Germany to Portugal.
I suddenly saw another aircraft, apparently at the same altitude ( I could swear until this day it was) coming at us at an angle. It came closer and closer and I thought, that's it, all ends here my friend.. :(
The other aircraft seemed to miss us by a couple hundred meters, and that is nothing at those speeds.. I could easily read "EasyJet" on it's side while it approached us. I even thought I saw the pilots in the cockpit, but not sure as it happened so fast.
Well, after I landed I looked my flight on "FlightRadar24", which is an app where you can watch flights in real time or track them afterwards. Apparently the other aircraft was 1000 feet (about 300 meters) higher then us the moment our paths crossed, which is already too close for my taste. :) So, there are two possibilities here.

1 - My depth perception was completely wrong
2 - One of the aircraft had the pressure set wrong on its altimeter. In this case I might have been in a real near miss..

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