3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

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wombat67
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3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by wombat67 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:58 am

Ok now I'm sure that this is a very simple process. Is this correct? Take a 2-position switch, replace it with a 3 Position one. Re-connect the ground wire to the middle contact of the 3-pos switch and the other existing wire to one of the outer contacts of the 3-pos switch. Then get a new wire and connect the remaining contact of the 3-pos switch to any one of EXT1 to EXT8. Then goto HARDWARE and make the appropriate changes for the particular switch.

If the above is correct - I then have one question. Where are EXT1 to EXT8??? Sorry if I am asking the bleeding obvious.

If the above is not correct then the question becomes... How do I connect a 3-position switch.

Cheers and thanks guys - no real problems with the extreme install. Arrived very promptly here in Oz.

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by MikeB » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:03 pm

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by wombat67 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:40 pm

HI Mike
Thanks for the reply and yes I had already visited that link from a previous forum request on adding the 3-pos switches.

In the hardware menu, on the 9Xtreme, there are 8 EXT options for extra switches. These use the 8 trim switch inputs on the original mainboard. I'm using one of them to make my ELE switch into a 3-pos switch.
These are on the 9-way connectors, pins 5, 6, 7 and 9.


I realise being so intimately involved with a project makes it hard sometime to convey info to those less so and I appreciate that with the release of this new board you probably have a lot going on. But if you could have a look at the pic below.

Image

Does the EXT numbering follow any order?
eg from left to right as viewed from the back.
EXT1 - A9
EXT2 - A7
EXT3 - A6
EXT4 - A5
EXT5 - B9
EXT6 - B7
EXT7 - B6
EXT8 - B5

Cheers
Kevin G

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MikeB
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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by MikeB » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:11 am

The quick answer I can give is your B7 is EXT3, as that is the connection I'm using.

I think:
EXT1 A5
EXT2 A6
EXT3 B7
EXT4 B9
EXT5 A7
EXT6 A9
EXT7 B5
EXT8 B6

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by wombat67 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:33 am

Thanks Mike - Perfect - 3-pos switch overload here I come
Cheers


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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by mmilan » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:01 pm

Ok, after alot of trial and error I have been able to map the "EXT" with the 9 pin connectors:

EXT1 A5
EXT2 A6
EXT3 B7
EXT4 B9
EXT5 A9
EXT6 B5? does not work
EXT7 A7
EXT8 B6? does not work

So we now have available six more 3 position switches!
Thankyou Mike and Steven

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by wombat67 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:00 pm

I concur....

EXT 8 sometimes even fails to appear as an option in the hardware screen. Also ELE can appear as an option at times.

Cheers

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by MikeB » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:48 pm

Ah, I think I may have something left over from the SKY board etc.
On that, you could make the ELE switch into a 3-pos switch by using a 'spare' analog input. If you do so, then the original ELE switch input becomes available to convert another switch to a 3-pos, which is why it appears in the list.

I'll do some testing!

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by jhsa » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:29 am

On the 9xtreme, with so many I/O pins available, using an analog pin on a 3 position switch should be considered a crime :mrgreen:

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by stewwy » Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:16 pm

Could someone comment on this to see if I have it right, and to check my logic :D

I'm going to change some of my switches to 3 way switches using the wiring above, can't see any problem with that

However I have a D4R-II with the 18ms firmware ( I'd like to keep using this for the quicker response)

if I use the minimal range I can to get the switches recognized, somewhere in the region -100, 0 instead of -100, 0, 100
that should reduce my usage of the complete frame, which will allow me to use the full 8 channels on the D4R-II
without running into the out of frame errors which require the 27ms firmware.

obviously I'll test this, but can anyone see an error in my logic?

I could pull the center point down using resistors but as far as I can see I don't need to do this as I can also use the endpoint limits in the software to limit the range

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by MikeB » Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:08 pm

I usually reckon on needing 4.5mS for the sync. pulse, so this leaves you with 13.5mS for the channel pulses.
If you assume the first 4 channels could all go to 2mS, this leaves 5.5mS for the remaining channels.
4 channels at 1.5mS would be 6mS.
So it would depend on the length of the sync pulse you need.

Setting the sub-trim to -50% and the top limit to 0 would ensure the channel be 1.0mS, 1.25mS and 1.5mS for the 3 positions of the switch.

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by stewwy » Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:25 pm

MikeB wrote:I usually reckon on needing 4.5mS for the sync. pulse, so this leaves you with 13.5mS for the channel pulses.
If you assume the first 4 channels could all go to 2mS, this leaves 5.5mS for the remaining channels.
4 channels at 1.5mS would be 6mS.
So it would depend on the length of the sync pulse you need.

Setting the sub-trim to -50% and the top limit to 0 would ensure the channel be 1.0mS, 1.25mS and 1.5mS for the 3 positions of the switch.

Mike.
Thanks mike,

from my calcs and some testing I can reliably resolve down to 0.125ms so I could set the subtrim to give an even smaller range to be safe say -30% and top limit of 0

I don't have an oscilloscope so I can't test other than through the flight controller, but I've found this video doing exactly what I need. :D
d4r-ii 18ms problem explained It also has a useful explanation about why 27ms firmware is worse than 18ms

Initially I was worried because I wasn't certain the midpoint of each channel was floating in the frame, if it was fixed it would have been a problem ( lack of knowledge of the rc protocols now fixed :D )

Hopefully It'll be helpful if someone is doing the same thing.

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by MikeB » Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:43 pm

Note that on the open source firmware +/-100% gives you the complete pulse range from 1.0 to 2.0mS. Most commercial radios only use 1.1 to 1.9mS.
You could also therefore set the limits on other channels to -80% and +80% to match these, then the first 4 channels will only go to 1.9mS, thus saving 0.4mS in the total frame time.

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by stewwy » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:15 pm

Every little helps.

once you understand the basics and what you need to do, the software is so versatile you can match just about anything.

Of course, understanding the basics can take some time :ugeek:

looks like the 27ms is super safe for the mathematically challenged :roll:

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by MikeB » Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:31 pm

mmilan wrote:Ok, after alot of trial and error I have been able to map the "EXT" with the 9 pin connectors:

EXT1 A5
EXT2 A6
EXT3 B7
EXT4 B9
EXT5 A9
EXT6 B5? does not work
EXT7 A7
EXT8 B6? does not work
It looks like I have a problem with this mapping, caused by the ELE switch having different options to the other switches. EXT1 to EXT4 work OK. EXT5 to EXT8 vary a bit depending on which switch you are modifying.

For the 9Xtreme, I don't think the ELE switchneeds different options as we don't have a spare analog input to use to make it a 6-pos switch. There is also a newish option to use one of the pots converted to a 6-position switch.

I'll try to get this sorted. You may find that selecting ELE as an option actually maps to one of the trims at present.

I shall be removing ELE, 6PSA and 6PSB from the options and just having EXT1 to EXT8.

If doing mods to use 3-pos switches, try to use EXT1 to EXT4 for now, the others may change mapping in the next test revision.

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by MikeB » Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:22 pm

OK, I've found and fixed the problems. I believe the mapping will be (as I posted above):
EXT1 A5
EXT2 A6
EXT3 B7
EXT4 B9
EXT5 A7
EXT6 A9
EXT7 B5
EXT8 B6

I have tested EXT3, EXT7 and EXT8 with my fixes, I'll test the others shortly.
I'll post a new test version when checked.

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by Grantman » Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:37 am

Are we limited to switches on EXT1-8 or could a couple be configured as pots/sliders?

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by MikeB » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:05 am

Yes, EXT1-8 are for switches only.
The original 4 stick inputs are unused on the original board, when the 9Xtreme is fitted. These could be used for extra pots/sliders. Firmware support is in for these to be read by the original board and passed to the 9Xtreme, however, there is no support in ersky9x to actually use these (yet).
There is code in exsistence to handle extra pots/sliders for the Taranis Plus and X9E, but this is hard coded.
I do have plans to add this feature.

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by Grantman » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:21 am

Thanks Mike, look forward to it.

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by stewwy » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:44 pm

Just a thought but now all the EXT are working there is nothing to stop someone using a 6 position switch without all the resistors and other stuff, correct?

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by Grantman » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:50 pm

stewwy wrote:Just a thought but now all the EXT are working there is nothing to stop someone using a 6 position switch without all the resistors and other stuff, correct?
How? Use 6 of the 8 EXT connections? The 6pos is a replacement for a pot, without the resistors it's just a selector.

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Re: 3 Position Swicth Upgrades - How to....

Post by MikeB » Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:35 pm

Yes, in theory, a 6-position switch could be connected to 5 (yes 5) of the EXT signals. This would need new firmware support.

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