RESOLVED: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

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RESOLVED: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by Jerrit1 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:12 am

I bought a used T-rex 600, complete minus receiver, I have a spektrum receiver and its order is labeled TAER on it, so I went into my 9XR Pro running r220 ersky9xr and I set the radio up for TAER, then I used the template to create a helicopter mix but the mix is being created like this.....
ch1,2,3 = AIL, ELE, PIT servos
ch4 = rudder servo (to GYro in)
ch5 = THR (ESC)

Why does it not set up the correct TAER order making my throttle ch1, etc?

Thanks.
Last edited by Jerrit1 on Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by jhsa » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:01 am

Check the radio is set to the correct stick mode as well.
For example mode two is rudder and throttle on the left stick and aileron and elevator on the right stick..

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by Jerrit1 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:31 am

The radio is correctly set to mode 2

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by MikeB » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:16 pm

Is the heli. a flybar one or flybarless? As I understand it, if it is flybarless, then you just need a "normal" 4-channel setup and not a special heli template.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by Jerrit1 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:13 pm

It's an older flybar Align T-Rex with one servo in back (ELEV) and two up front, the left servo is PITCH and the right servo is AILE.
Best I can tell so far is that the Heli Template did not set the mixing up correctly because in the simulator there are servos moving that I dont think should be moving...maybe my firmware install got corrupted. I will try a fresh install of the firmware on the radio tonight.

As a side note I thought maybe my receiver was bad but I tried a 2nd identical receiver and it behaved the same exact way...I highly doubt I have two bad receivers.


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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by KAL » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:15 pm

Jerrit1 wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:12 am
Why does it not set up the correct TAER order making my throttle ch1, etc?
TAER is not applicable to heli mode.
A CCPM flybar heli doesn't have regular aileron or elevator!! :shock:
You have 3 servos to tilt (cyclic pitch) or lift (collective pitch) the swash plate.

Usually ch1 to ch3 are the so called cyclic channels to drive the swash plate.
The placement of the 3 related servos on swash plate depends on 'swash type' in 'heli setup' (or vice versa).
ch4 is used for pitch of tail rotor (rudder) and ch5 for throttle.
ch6 is used to control the gyro.

Edit:
so if you use mode 2 and
- move the right stick the swash plate should only tilt
- move throttle stick all 3 cyclic servos should move the same way and lift (or lower) the swash plate (amount depends on flight mode)

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Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by Daedalus66 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:04 pm

I think you will find the following thread very helpful.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthr ... 8flybar%29

The issue is that the template built into ER9X/ERSky9x is based on AETR channel order. The above thread discusses how this can be transformed to the JR/Spektrum TAER.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by Jerrit1 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:08 pm

Thank you Daedalus66 ...I wish I could have found that thread while I was searching for help setting up my radio! ...ill know tonight if this solves my problem.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by Daedalus66 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:35 pm

Just keep in mind that there's nothing special about TAER unless you are using a Spektrum or other receiver that assigns throttle failsafe to channel 1 (as you are). I use TAER with my ERSky9x transmitters for models that are controlled by an RF module supporting DSMX/DSM2. But when I'm using the FrSky protocol in my Taranis, I use whatever channel order is most convenient because there are no failsafe or other channel-specific limitations.

Good luck.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by Jerrit1 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:51 am

I still have no idea whats going on...basically the radio is showing movement on Ch2 but the servo does not move. Same with Ch 6.
RUD and ELEV move fine...same issue with three receivers.
My radio setup is exactly like the link provided which shows a JR/Spektrum setup in TAER order.
The radio was purchased from HK as a mode 2 and the radio setup shows mode 2, TAER, the eePskye simulator shows all movement as being correct.
Two Redcon and one orange servo all have no servo movement on Ch2 or Ch6 ...I'm plugging in known good/tested servos.
This 9XR Pro radio is new and I've only used it with Phoenix 5 sim...worked fine.
It has the Multi module from banggood in it and its set to DSM/DSMX-22 protocol.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by jhsa » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:35 am

Please download your radio's eeprom to your computer, save it, then put it inside a zip file and attach it yo your next post. We will have a look and try to find a problem..

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by Jerrit1 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:05 am

here is my EEPROM file from my 9XR Pro

Thanks.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by Jerrit1 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:07 am

Hmmm...it says ERROR: A PHP extension has stopped the file upload.
Same error with IE and Firefox

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by Jerrit1 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:06 pm

I emailed jhsa the EEPROM file so hopefully he can post it here for me so someone can take a look at it.

Thanks.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by jhsa » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:16 pm

I am having problems downloading the attachment from my email on the phone. Will try form the PC when I get home later..

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by jhsa » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:16 am

Ok, here it is the file :)

João
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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by Jerrit1 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:16 pm

Is anyone with a 9XR Pro radio willing to try my EEPROM out and see if I set something up wrong please?

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by MikeB » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:43 pm

I loaded your EEPROM into eepskye and I see the protocol set to MULTI/AUTO, with the Option set to 0.
When you bind, provided you have the telemetry settings correct to be able to receive data from the Multi module, these should change to the settings needed for your receiver.
If they don't change, then you need to configure the telemetry settings to receive the bind response.
Otherwise, you need to set the protocol by hand to the correct settings, in particular the Option value sets the number of channels to be sent, 4 for 4 channels, 5 for 5 channels etc.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by jhsa » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:48 pm

Jerrit1 wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:51 am

This 9XR Pro radio is new and I've only used it with Phoenix 5 sim...worked fine.
It has the Multi module from banggood in it and its set to DSM/DSMX-22 protocol.
Yeah, it works fine in eepskye.
- There are a couple things you can test. connect it to the sim with that model loaded. Do ch2 and 6 work then?

- Create a new model, do the channels work??

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by Jerrit1 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:32 pm

MikeB wrote:
Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:43 pm
I loaded your EEPROM into eepskye and I see the protocol set to MULTI/AUTO, with the Option set to 0.
When you bind, provided you have the telemetry settings correct to be able to receive data from the Multi module, these should change to the settings needed for your receiver.
If they don't change, then you need to configure the telemetry settings to receive the bind response.
Otherwise, you need to set the protocol by hand to the correct settings, in particular the Option value sets the number of channels to be sent, 4 for 4 channels, 5 for 5 channels etc.

Mike.
I had it set to DSM and DSMX-22, I also tried DSM-11 and DSM2-11/22 and then I tried AUTO as well, when you got the EEPROM it was still on AUTO. In every one of those positions the radio would bind with the receiver. The problem im having is that when I move the throttle stick, only the ELEV and AILE servos move...the PITCH servo (front left side of swash) does not move at all...it of course should be moving up with the ELEV and AILE servos.
When I move the ELEV stick only the ELEV moves but when I move the AILE stick left and right the AILE servo moves ok but the PITCH servo moves only about 10% of its full motion....so it moves WAY less then the AILE servo moves.
I have tested the servos...they are all functioning correctly using a stand alone servo tester.
I have tried multiple receivers...they all behave the same way....its almost as if the Multi module from Banggood is just not sending the signal correctly but when I remove the Multi module and plug in my Orange LRS 433mhz module and 433mhz receiver I get similar results.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by MikeB » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:39 pm

What about changing the Option value. The radio should display 4ch or 5ch etc. when you set it to 4 or 5 etc.
You probably need it set to 6 or 7.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by Jerrit1 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:04 am

jhsa wrote:
Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:48 pm

Yeah, it works fine in eepskye.
- There are a couple things you can test. connect it to the sim with that model loaded. Do ch2 and 6 work then?

- Create a new model, do the channels work??

João
Im not sure how that would work since I dont think the sim uses the CCPM mixing in the radio and the CCPM mixing is where my problem seems to be coming from.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by jhsa » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:35 am

They work in eepskye. Will load the model on my pro tomorrow. Too late now, I have been busy with something else.

Also it doesn't matter if the heli mix works on the sim or not, you just want to see if the channels move things.

Just create a new model on the radio using channels 2 and 6. Assign a stick to them for example. See if the servos connected to the RX move..

João



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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by Jerrit1 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:13 pm

MikeB wrote:
Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:39 pm
What about changing the Option value. The radio should display 4ch or 5ch etc. when you set it to 4 or 5 etc.
You probably need it set to 6 or 7.

Mike.
It sets to 8ch by default...I just leave it there.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by MikeB » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:23 pm

That sounds odd. You normally need to set it to a specific value, or it is set when you bind in AUTO mode. The "default" is 0.

Try setting it to 7, it was 0 in the EEPROM you posted. Using 8, or higher for "Option" causes a different mode of transmission as only 7 channels are sent in a packet.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by Jerrit1 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:58 am

MikeB wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:23 pm
That sounds odd. You normally need to set it to a specific value, or it is set when you bind in AUTO mode. The "default" is 0.

Try setting it to 7, it was 0 in the EEPROM you posted. Using 8, or higher for "Option" causes a different mode of transmission as only 7 channels are sent in a packet.

Mike.
I see the setting you are talking about, it was at 0 and I set it to 7 but it made no difference.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by Jerrit1 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:20 am

More results from testing, I created a standard 4ch airplane mix and deleted everything but the rudder...then I moved it from ch1 to ch2 to ch3 to see what the results were. Ch1 in the radio moved the servo when attached to ch2 on the Rx. Ch2 in the radio moved the servo when attached to ch3 on the Rx. Ch3 in the radio moved no servo at all on any of the Rx 7 channels....I gave up there.
Then I went back to my only other Tx module/Rx combo, the OrangeRx LRS 433mhz setup and tried my 4ch airplane setup and all the channels in the radio moved on the correct ch on the Rx. So then I setup a helicopter mix using the template, I didn't add in the gyro or sticky t.cut stuff...just the heli template only and I left them right where the template put them. Ch1 = CYC1, Ch2 = CYC2, Ch3= CYC3, Ch4 = RUD, Ch5 = THR.
After reversing the PITCH servo all was working with THR and RUD just fine....all 3 servos move up as I push the throttle on the Tx up.
Here is the next problem.....the ELEV servo moves up and the AILE servo moves down as I move the elevator stick up on the Tx.
The ELEV servo moves down and the PITCH servo moves up as I move the aileron stick to the right on the Tx.

This is my first ever attempt at setting up a CCPM heli so maybe I'm just screwing it up...or maybe this radio needs to go in the trash can.
either way, thanks for all the help you guys are giving me.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by jhsa » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:49 am

Jerrit1 wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:20 am
or maybe this radio needs to go in the trash can.
Why not saying, "....or maybe I need to learn how to work with it??" :D
It's not the radio's fault. there are probably thousands of us using it ;)

I can't help you better because I don't fly helis, and never set one up, even if I understand how they work.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by MikeB » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:24 pm

There are some settings in the HELI menu you might need to adjust. The template is just that, a template. It sets the general sort of settings you need, but specifics, like the direction of response to sticks may need changing due to the exact mechanics of your servo setup. See the settings like AIL direction.

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Re: Template does not setup mixes using TAER order?

Post by Jerrit1 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:29 pm

There is more going on here than just servo direction, I have verified both my AILE and my PITCH servo are plugged into the correct channel but then why is my ELEV servo moving when I move the sticks aileron left and right...and I don't mean it moves a little...it is moving 100% of its movement like the other servos are...it should not be moving.
This heli is a simple 120 swash flybar setup, the template should make it work pretty easily yet servos that should not be moving are moving and I get different behavior based on which module/Rx combo I have installed.

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