Setting flaps problem

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pnedic
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Setting flaps problem

Post by pnedic » Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:09 pm

Hello

I want to make flaps that reacts on my 3POS switch. I'm using Turnigy9X and openTX. I set to be them on CH5. I have made actions on ID1 go down -30 and ID2 go down -60.
The mix on CH5 are following:
for ID1 : Source=MAX, weight=-30, offset=0, Curve=Diff, Flight Modes=all, Switch=ID1, Multiplex=ADD, SlowUP=3;
for ID2 : Source=MAX, weight=-60, offset=-30, Curve=Diff, Flight Modes=all, Switch=ID2, Multiplex=ADD, SlowUP=3;

Now, when clicking from ID0->ID1, CH5 goes down from 0 to -30 withing 3 sec (slowed down) - that's OK.
When further click from ID1 -> ID2, CH5 goes from (esixting) -30 to -60 within 3 sec. I used offset to set starting point of CH5 when click from ID1 to ID2 - that's OK as well

Now PROBLEM: when click from ID2 back to ID1 it happens that value of CH5 quickly resets to 0 and then with slowed motion move from 0 to -30. Just as it is happening when click from ID0 to ID1.

How to "tell" to TX that when click from ID2 to ID1, starting position has to be -60 (not 0), and move CH5 from -60 back to -30 ?

I tried with Logic switch but no success.

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jhsa
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Re: Setting flaps problem

Post by jhsa » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:13 pm

One of the problems is that you can't use "slow" in more than one mix in the same channel. Also I don't understand why you are using Diff (differential?) but then leave it at zero?

Ok, I don't use openTX, I use ER9x, but they are quite similar here. Try the example below:

Ch5 100% 3POS Curve (c1) Slow (u3:d3) "3POS is the 3 position switch as source"

Now go edit "curve 1" in the curves menu and make it a 5 point curve for example

-60, -45, -30, -15, 0

When the switch is at ID0 the channel is at 0
ID1 is at -30, and ID2 is at -60. 3 second slow on both directions.

João
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MikeB
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Re: Setting flaps problem

Post by MikeB » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:14 pm

Specifically, you need to the the switch as the SOURCE of the mix.

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ReSt
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Re: Setting flaps problem

Post by ReSt » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:08 pm

put the 3pos switch onto an unused channel e.g.CH8
use the 3pos switch as source:
CH8: 3POS 100%

add channel 8 to your flaps channel e.g.ch5 and use slowup/down 3
CH5: +100% CH8 slow down:3 slow up:3

On the servos page set min to -100 neutral to -50 and max to 0
Reinhard

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jhsa
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Re: Setting flaps problem

Post by jhsa » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:34 pm

He can use the 3POS directly on the flaps channel. As he only needs one mix there there is no need to put the slow on another mix. It can be done also without using a curve but the outputs/Servo menu..

Ch5 100% 3POS Slow (u3:d3) "3POS is the 3 position switch as source"

Now in outputs/servo menu. (I don't use opentx so I don't know the exact name of the menu).

CH5 set subtrim to -30, Min limit to -60 and Max limit to 0

If the switch operation is reversed, change 100% on the mixer to -100%

There are several ways of doing the same thing.. :) And yet another one. The easiest I think: :D

CH5 -30% 3POS Offset (100%) Slow (u3:d3)

João
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pnedic
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Re: Setting flaps problem

Post by pnedic » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:40 am

jhsa wrote:One of the problems is that you can't use "slow" in more than one mix in the same channel. Also I don't understand why you are using Diff (differential?) but then leave it at zero?

Ok, I don't use openTX, I use ER9x, but they are quite similar here. Try the example below:

Ch5 100% 3POS Curve (c1) Slow (u3:d3) "3POS is the 3 position switch as source"

Now go edit "curve 1" in the curves menu and make it a 5 point curve for example

-60, -45, -30, -15, 0

When the switch is at ID0 the channel is at 0
ID1 is at -30, and ID2 is at -60. 3 second slow on both directions.

João
THANKS João - this is great
Only thing I had to change is oposite sequence of curve values, so it's 0, -15, -30, -45, -60 (counting from value 1)
So simple and works. So finally it's as

CH5: 3POS Weight:+100% Curve(C1) Slow(U3:D3)
curve 1 values: 0, -15, -30, -45, -60


Now, as you asked why I used differential: this is because it's default option when you edit a mix (with value 0)
One more thing: I didn't know that slowing can be applied to ONLY ONE mix in the same channel. Obviously I realized this, but thought I screwed up something :)

THANKS AGAIN !
Last edited by pnedic on Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

pnedic
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Re: Setting flaps problem

Post by pnedic » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:48 am

ReSt wrote:put the 3pos switch onto an unused channel e.g.CH8
use the 3pos switch as source:
CH8: 3POS 100%

add channel 8 to your flaps channel e.g.ch5 and use slowup/down 3
CH5: +100% CH8 slow down:3 slow up:3

On the servos page set min to -100 neutral to -50 and max to 0
Reinhard
Thanks for replay Reinhard. Your solution also works, but I had to make some additions/modification as Joao suggested:

So CH8 is set as you said: CH8: 3POS 100%
CH5 is set as: CH5: CH8 weight(+100%) Slow(U3:D3)
Now what I added is Servo setting as follows:
CH5: Subtrim: 30%, Min:0%, Max:60% and Direction: INV

to write clearly:

CH8: 3POS 100%
CH5: CH8 weight(+100%) Slow(U3:D3)
Servos: CH5: Subtrim: 30%, Min:0%, Max:60% and Direction: INV


CH8 goes from left to write form +100 (ID0) over 0 (ID1) to -100 (ID2) but it's doesn't matter.

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jhsa
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Re: Setting flaps problem

Post by jhsa » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:42 am

Good that you have sorted it. As you can see there are several ways of doing the same thing that can be adapted to what you are trying to achieve.
In this case I find my last solution with the offset the easiest as you only need to program 1 mix and don't have to add any curves of change the servo/outputs menu. The other solution using the output/servo menus allows you to tune the values better.
For me the best option in my opinion (and the one you have chosen) is the one using a curve, as not only you have a visual idea of what is going on but you can also change the curve to a less linear movement of the servo..

I asked about differential because as I said before there are more ways of doing the same thing, and differential can be used depending on what you want to achieve. I will try to post an example for you later. I just didn't understand why the value was set to zero. In er9x it is set to "curve" and the value to "---" I think ;) :)

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pnedic
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Re: Setting flaps problem

Post by pnedic » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:21 am

I do not have --- for Diff, just values.
Well I will also try the solution you marked as easiest with offset (didn't read carefully :)).

Well, now I tried to apply one more mix: to add option CH5 works as airbrakes. For example when activate GEA(ear) switch, to let "flaps" to go up e.g. 20%. And stuck again :(.
I Used the second solution (assigned to some free chanel CH7: GEA Weight:10 and Offset:10). Then ADDed new mix to CH5 as follows: Source=CH7 Weight=100
finally it looks like this

CH5 : 3POS Weight(+100%) Curve(C1) Slow(U3:D0)
+=CH7 Weight(+100%)
CH7: GEA Weight(+10%) Offset(10%)


I wanted NO MATTER of current flaps position, when click on GEA button to move flaps up AT +20. What happening is that when GEA isswitched ON, flaps goes up FOR 20%. So
If ID0 and GEA is On, my flaps are set at 20 (when both is switched off, flaps are at 0)
If ID1 and GEA are switched ON, my flaps goes to pos -10% (as -30+20=-10).
If ID2 and GEA are switched ON, flaps pos is at -40 (-60+20=-40).

Also I tried to make Curve 2 that should override Curve 1, but no success (Curve 2 had values 20, 35, 40, 55, 60 - so the resulting values would be always +20). But in this case, when ID0 and GEA is off, flaps pos are at +20 which is not good.

Thanks for help

pnedic
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Re: Setting flaps problem

Post by pnedic » Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:26 am

I made it: airbrakes on CH5 no matter of position of flaps (activated by 3POS switch) !

As all good solutions are the most simple, this is one of them. Here what I've done.
Removed addional MIX on CH5 (so there is only one mix on CH5 defined for flaps)
Removed MIX on CH7 (I do not need it)

In special/custom functions set new one as follows: Switch=GEA, Action=Override CH5, Parameters=20, Enable=ON

On this way, whenever I switch GEA ON, CH5 goes to up 20. No matter on 3POS switch position (i.e. flaps position)

Anyway, thanks for help again.

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MikeB
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Re: Setting flaps problem

Post by MikeB » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:09 am

Mixes have a "multiplex" option of "add", "multiply" and "replace". You can achieve what you want by using a mix on the channel (the last one on the channel) with a "replace" multiplex. When on, this mix will replace all the previous mixes.
R +20% MAX switch(GEA) - (the R indicates a "Replace" mix).

When GEA of off, the mix is off, so has no effect.
When GEA is on, the mix is on and replaces all previous mixes.

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pnedic
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Re: Setting flaps problem

Post by pnedic » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:54 am

MikeB wrote:Mixes have a "multiplex" option of "add", "multiply" and "replace". You can achieve what you want by using a mix on the channel (the last one on the channel) with a "replace" multiplex. When on, this mix will replace all the previous mixes.
R +20% MAX switch(GEA) - (the R indicates a "Replace" mix).

When GEA of off, the mix is off, so has no effect.
When GEA is on, the mix is on and replaces all previous mixes.

Mike.
Hi MikeB

I know for Replace option and I have tried it - but I did not set source as MAX, so my solution was not working. That what you said: source=MAX and switch=GEA, is working ! Thanks !
Anyhow, I realized that my mentioned solution (with custom function) takes less memory (not significantly) so I'll use custom fuction.

Unfortunatelly, I realized that my Dual Rates does not work. I'm out of mind why it is. I've attached the comparrision of my two models: ASW28 and Cessna. On Cessna, dual rates work, on ASW28 do not.

Or this question should be posted as new post ?
Attachments
ASW28_To_Cessna_Compare.pdf
Comparrision ASW toCessna
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jhsa
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Re: Setting flaps problem

Post by jhsa » Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:08 am

So, with your solution it works, and Mike solution works also. But, the flaps will jump immediately to the 20% position, right? And you might want a smooth transition :)
So, as this is a little more complicated lets go back to Reinhard's solution above And do something like this.
Program a higher channel (say CH16) with the relevant mixes but without the slow function..

CH16 100% 3POS Curve(C1)
R +20% MAX switch(GEA) - (the R indicates a "Replace" mix).

curve 1 values: 0, -15, -30, -45, -60

Now on your flaps channel:

CH5 100% CH16 Slow(u3:d3)

Now your servo will move smoothly even when moving to/from the +20% position.. No jumps in flight, just a smooth transition ;) :D

João
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pnedic
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Re: Setting flaps problem

Post by pnedic » Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:21 am

João, thanks for addition

well, I didn't want smooth transition of flaps on moving UP, Intentionally. I just didn't want to add such detail at my first post.

I decided also not to slow down when using airbrakes on any side. BUT, I'm gonna think about slowing down when activating them. Anyhow I'll test your solution.

PS. Should I make new post related to dual rates problem, I've mentioned in my previous post ?

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